Otherworld

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Eddies Enticements ..... ( Spoilers )

Post by Otherworld on Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:35 pm

As we know, Silent Hill has come to be a place that calls those who hold a profound darkness in their hearts after the events of the 1st game. And there really couldn't be a better example of this then Eddie.

Eddie arrives in town because he gave Laura a ride, but Eddies ends up in the otherworld because of what the town sees in his heart, he is not searching for anyone like James and Angela.

Once James enters room 101 of the Woodside apartments he finds a dead body hanging out of the refrigerator in the kitchen he says to himself...

James: What the...? Who could have done this...???


At this point we see three running themes that are very specific to Eddie. Food, the dark and the cold....

We meet Eddie in a dark bathroom stress vomiting.

Here is the scene:



Man: It wasn't me! I didn't do it!

James: Do what?

Man: I didn't do anything. I, I swear! He was like this when I got here...


It is quite evident that Eddie has just committed ( what he thinks ) his first murder. The denial and the stress vomiting point to it.

James: My uh, my name's James. James Sunderland.

Man: Ummm... Eddie.

James: Eddie, who's that dead guy in the kitchen'

Eddie: I didn't do it. I swear I didn't kill anybody.

James: You're not friends with that red, pyramid thing, are you'

Eddie: Red pyramid thing? I don't know what yer talkin' about. Honest. But I did see some weird-lookin' monsters. They scared the hell outta me, so I ran in here...

James: Well, I guess this place isn't too safe either. What happened here anyway?

Eddie: Uh I, I told ya I don't know. I'm not even from this town. I just, I just...

James: You too, huh. Something just brought you here, right?

Eddie: Umm... yeah. You could say that...

James: Well whatever it is... I think you better get out of here soon.

Eddie: Yeah yer right. What about you ?

James: I'll leave as soon as I'm done here. Eddie... be careful.

Eddie: James, I... I... um... You be careful too.


Eddie has been called to the otherworld without the same burden of guilt that James and Angela have. In the second meeting between Angela and James, Angela tells James point blank .... " You're the same as me." Eddie says the same thing to James but much farther into James journey. It seems like Eddie is just discovering who he is at this point as he is just at the beginning of his journey.

The second time we meet Eddie, he is eating. Silent Hill sure knows exactly what Eddie hungers for as Eddie has no problem indulging himself. Odd for anyone to be able to just eat a pizza they found in such a place ....

Here is the scene:



Little Girl: So what'd you do? Robbery, murder?

Eddie: Nah, nothing like that.

Little Girl: Hah! You're just a gutless fatso!

Eddie: Whadda you have to say that for !?!?

Little Girl: I thought you said the cops were after you.

Eddie: No, I just ran 'cause I was scared. I don't know what the cops are doing.

Laura: But if you did something bad, why don't you just say you were sorry? Well... I guess I run away a lots too.

Eddie: It's no good. They wouldn't listen. Nobody will ever forgive me.


The scene cuts back to James in the storeroom, but Eddie's voice is still heard talking to Laura.

Eddie: Did ya find the lady you're looking for... What's her name... Mary?


Other than getting a little back story about Eddie here, this scene let's James know Laura is looking for Mary.

Then James makes his way into the same room seen here.



James: Eddie'

Eddie: Oh... umm, yer...

James: James. We met in the apartment building.

Eddie: Yeah, I remember, but...

James: Are you alone here, Eddie?

Eddie: Uh, no...


*A green bowling ball is shown rolling across the floor and we see Laura leave the bowling alley.

Little Girl: Bye-bye!

James: Wait! Come back! Eddie! Let's go after her!

Eddie: Huh? Laura? But why...?

James: Laura? Is that her name?

Eddie: That's what she said.

James: This town is full of monsters! How can you sit there and eat pizza!'

Eddie: She said she was fine by herself... She said a fatso like me would just slow her down.

James: Forget you...


Eddie seems much more worried about his pizza ( self indulgence ) then to be worried about a little girl that he has known much longer than James has, running around a dangerous place like Silent Hill. It seems like a link between James and Eddie could in fact be selfishness, but at this point we have no idea how strong that link could be.

The next time we meet Eddie it is apparent that he seems consumed with self indulgence. James ends up in some sort of cafeteria in the prison. But Eddies appetite seems to have shifted from pizza....... An appetite that has always been there all along as Eddie admits as much during this exchange.

Seen here:



Eddie: Killin' a person ain't no big deal. Just put the gun to their head...pow!


*A dead body is shown slumped over a table next to where Eddie is sitting.*

Notice that Eddie seems bothered by the light as he seems quite at home sitting in the dark. He does not even acknowledge James ... He starts off this conversation on what seems to be his fixation of self indulgence that seems to have become all consuming.......

James: You... you killed him!?!?!

Eddie: B,but... it wasn't my fault. He, he made me do it!

James: Calm down, Eddie. Tell me what happened.

Eddie: That guy... he, he had it coming! I didn't do anything. He just came after me! Besides he was making fun of me with his eyes! Like that other one...


It is evident that Eddie has just admitted that he killed the person found in the fridge in the apartments and that he has lying about it when we first met him.

James: Just for that you killed him?

Eddie: Whadda ya mean 'Just for that'!

James: Eddie, you can't just kill someone cause of the way they looked at you...

Eddie: Oh yeah! Why not? Til now I always let people walk all over me. Just like that stupid dog. He had it coming too!!

James: Eddie!!

Eddie: He he. I was just jokin', James. He was dead when I got here. Honest. Anyway, I gotta run.

James: You're going out there alone?

Eddie: Yeah.

James: Eddie...!


Another link between the characters is the way it seems that both try to self justify their actions conscious and/or subconsciously. Basically blaming their victims. Again, at this point we do not know how far this link will go but at this point it is quite clear that Silent Hill seems to be enticing Eddie to indulge in his "other" appetite.

We finally meet Eddie in his meat locker with a bunch of corpses on the ground all killed by Eddie. It seems that the foreshadowing of room 101 is evident as, again, we find Eddies victims in the process of "refrigeration"

We can now see that Eddie no longer has an appetite for the large pizza he was consuming in the bowling alley.

We see that his appetite for murder has all but consumed him....

Seen here:



Silent Hill seems to have already known how "gluttonous" Eddie really was as his insatiable appetite for murder has come to the forefront. Brought on partly because of the abuse he has endured. But mostly because it was already there.

James: Eddie! What are you doing!?!?

Eddie: What does it look like? He always busted my balls. 'You fat disgusting piece of shit! You make me sick!' 'Fat-ass, yer nothin' but a waste of skin.' 'You're so ugly, even you're mama don't love you!' Well maybe he was right. Maybe I am nothing but a fat, disgusting piece of shit. But ya know what? It doesn't matter if your smart, dumb, ugly, pretty...it's all the same once yer dead. And a corpse can't laugh. From now on, if anyone makes fun of me... I'll kill em. Just like that.


James: Eddie, have you gone nuts?


James seems to be catching on right about now ...... :lol:

Eddie: I knew it. You too. You're just like 'em, James.

James: Hey I didn't mean anything.

Eddie: Don't bother. I understand. You've been laughin' at me all along, haven't you? Ever since we first met. I'll kill you, James!


Other than James being a BIG idiot at this point. We know James has never made fun of Eddie.... Especially with his eyes.....

This just confirms that Eddie has completely lost it ..... After an exchange of gunfire Eddies runs in the meat locker area.

Seen here: ( Start the video at 2:30 )



Eddie seems to be explaining to James why he has become a person that will kill someone just for the way they looked at him. He tells James that he has been bullied his entire life for the way he looks, The link between both characters is that they have both, in part, killed because of the abuse they have endured.

Eddie: Do you know what it does to you, James? When you're hated, picked on, spit on, just cause of the way you look. After you've been laughed at your whole friggin' life. That's why I ran away after I killed the dog. Ran away like a scared little girl. Yeah, I killed that dog. It was fun. It tried to chew its own guts out! Finally died all curled up in a ball. Then 'He' came after me, I shot him too. Right in the leg. He cried more than the dog!

Eddie: He's gonna have a hard time playing football on what's left of that knee.

James: You think it's okay to kill people! You need help, Eddie!

Eddie: Don't get all holy on me, James. This town called you, too. You and me are the same. We're not like other people. Don't you know that'!

Eddie: Let's party!


Because Eddie has accepted the type of person he is, it is quite clear to him that James would not be in the same place as him if they did not share a type of the same sort of commonality. He knows they have been called for immoral reasons.

Silent Hill called Eddie seeing exactly what was in his heart. Eddies being enticed by the town shows the real reason for his calling. When given the opportunity, Eddie indulges in his appetites again and again. And after blowing away countless "victims" he tries his luck with James.

We see him rather enjoy this conflict with his "Let's party" statement......

But Eddies seems to have bitten off more than he can chew as this potential victim can fight back as James fights fire with fire......
Last edited by Otherworld on Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:27 pm.
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Silenthill4life

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Eddies Enticements ..... ( Spoilers )

Post by Silenthill4life on Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:30 pm

Is it possible that the people Eddie killed are physical manifestations of human beings produced by the otherworld to test Eddie?
Perhaps the "people" he killed in the otherworld were human monsters that were taunting him or provoking him to the point Eddie had to resort to murder to end their nuisances, rather then be resilient and persevere through the torment.
I don't think they would be actual human beings caught by the town because of the fact that James conveniently encounters them after they've been killed by Eddie. It could also be that these "humans" are only unique to Eddie like how pyramid head is unique to James.

I liked your analysis but I don't agree with him self-indulging instead of opting to find Laura. Seems like it could be both self-indulgence and despondence from being bullied by her.
Sometimes when people get depressed or feel low about themselves they turn to food for comfort. I don't think that would be considered self-indulgence but more of a coping mechanism. Perhaps this too was why he continued to eat instead of going to find Laura.
When he states that Laura said a "gutless fatso" like him would only "slow her down", it probably hurt his feelings and hence why he didn't want to be around her or find her.
 
 
 
 
 

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Eddies Enticements ..... ( Spoilers )

Post by Xuchilbara on Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:09 am

The guy in the fridge, I don't think the game implies he killed him. They do for the prison guy, but at the same time nothing direcdirectly ties Eddie to his death either.

As for Silent Hill feeding his appetites, well he is the gluttonous pig. But I also think he's saner than James ans Angela, and that he has one foot in the real world and one not. He doesn't seem to be aa delusional as them.
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Eddies Enticements ..... ( Spoilers )

Post by Princess Kenny on Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:30 am

I always got the sence that Eddie was the early makings of a serial killer. Am I alone.
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Eddies Enticements ..... ( Spoilers )

Post by Silenthill4life on Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:39 am

Princess Kenny wrote:I always got the sence that Eddie was the early makings of a serial killer. Am I alone.


He just was really unfortunate. I think most serial killers don't need a reason to kill other than the hormonal highs they get from it.
Eddie's desire to kill was a distorted perspective wherein he could quickly resolve his bullying (a problem he had to endure for years) by permanently killing his bullies.
I think he didn't enjoy the killing but more so the fact that for once he felt he had definitive control over his oppressors (because by killing them he ends his bullying).

Purramid_Head wrote: But I also think he's saner than James ans Angela, and that he has one foot in the real world and one not. He doesn't seem to be aa delusional as them.


Yeah I agree.

He seems saner than Angela and James from the onset of James Journey but perhaps so too did Angela, because it seems implied she was in SH longer than James was as she advises him about the town, etc. She also seems more closer to her truth/past given how she claims to be looking for her family but her search led her to the graveyard (therefore she might be closer to the idea her brother and father have died at her hands).
 
 
 
 
 

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Eddies Enticements ..... ( Spoilers )

Post by Xuchilbara on Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:39 am

Princess Kenny wrote:I always got the sence that Eddie was the early makings of a serial killer. Am I alone.

Nah brah. A few years back before Ito came out and said that Eddie never killed anyone. ... my friend and I got in a huge argument about it. I said he killed people, my friend claimed he didn't. Ultimately we decided it didn't matter because Eddie certainly had intent and would've killed James if he didn't defend himself regardless.
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Eddies Enticements ..... ( Spoilers )

Post by Silenthill4life on Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:58 am

Purramid_Head wrote:Nah brah. A few years back before Ito came out and said that Eddie never killed anyone. ... my friend and I got in a huge argument about it. I said he killed people, my friend claimed he didn't. Ultimately we decided it didn't matter because Eddie certainly had intent and would've killed James if he didn't defend himself regardless.


When Ito said Eddie never killed anyone was that referring to his time outside of his SH journey or including his journey in SH?

Did he only envision killing people and the town's forces projected the result of those visions as the corpses we see in the otherworld?
 
 
 
 
 

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Eddies Enticements ..... ( Spoilers )

Post by Otherworld on Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:55 am

Silenthill4life wrote:Is it possible that the people Eddie killed are physical manifestations of human beings produced by the otherworld to test Eddie?
Perhaps the "people" he killed in the otherworld were human monsters that were taunting him or provoking him to the point Eddie had to resort to murder to end their nuisances, rather then be resilient and persevere through the torment.
I don't think they would be actual human beings caught by the town because of the fact that James conveniently encounters them after they've been killed by Eddie. It could also be that these "humans" are only unique to Eddie like how pyramid head is unique to James.

I liked your analysis but I don't agree with him self-indulging instead of opting to find Laura. Seems like it could be both self-indulgence and despondence from being bullied by her.
Sometimes when people get depressed or feel low about themselves they turn to food for comfort. I don't think that would be considered self-indulgence but more of a coping mechanism. Perhaps this too was why he continued to eat instead of going to find Laura.
When he states that Laura said a "gutless fatso" like him would only "slow her down", it probably hurt his feelings and hence why he didn't want to be around her or find her.


This is a possibility.

The way I look at it .... it is the reason why the pizza is there so to speak. James says as much as he even knows that it would not be right to just leave a little girl alone in such a place.....

James: This town is full of monsters! How can you sit there and eat pizza!'


I think it is a there is a running theme between the 2 characters that has to do with selfishness.

Purramid_Head wrote:The guy in the fridge, I don't think the game implies he killed him. They do for the prison guy, but at the same time nothing directly ties Eddie to his death either.


I am fairly sure Eddie admits that he kills the guy in the firdge here ....

Eddie: That guy... he, he had it coming! I didn't do anything. He just came after me! Besides he was making fun of me with his eyes! Like that "other" one...


^This seems like an admission of the "other" guy that James found dead when Eddie was in the same room. Room 101 in the apartments as they both know there was another "victim" there ...

As for the guy found in the prison cafeteria, he seems to admit it here and never denies it ....

James: Just for that you killed him?

Eddie: Whadda ya mean 'Just for that'!

James: Eddie, you can't just kill someone cause of the way they looked at you...

Eddie: Oh yeah! Why not? Til now I always let people walk all over me. Just like that stupid dog. He had it coming too!!


He is basically saying here that he killed 2 "people" and a dog .....

Purramid_Head wrote:As for Silent Hill feeding his appetites, well he is the gluttonous pig. But I also think he's saner than James ans Angela, and that he has one foot in the real world and one not. He doesn't seem to be aa delusional as them.


Agreed, as he is in town for a shorter time but puts things together very quickly ......

Purramid_Head wrote:
Princess Kenny wrote:I always got the sence that Eddie was the early makings of a serial killer. Am I alone.

Nah brah. A few years back before Ito came out and said that Eddie never killed anyone. ... my friend and I got in a huge argument about it. I said he killed people, my friend claimed he didn't. Ultimately we decided it didn't matter because Eddie certainly had intent and would've killed James if he didn't defend himself regardless.


Agreed.

All that really has to be established here is intent. Eddie clearly "thought" he was killing people and that is all that counts.
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Eddies Enticements ..... ( Spoilers )

Post by Borg on Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:49 am

Otherworld wrote:He is basically saying here that he killed 2 "people" and a dog .....


I think the town made him crazier, before he went into it, he wounded someone and killed a dog, but like he does say he got scared and ran away.



Otherworld wrote: James says as much as he even knows that it would not be right to just leave a little girl alone in such a place.....


Which is funny because James leaves people, like in the first encounter with Eddie, it's like: "Yeah, this place is dangerous..be careful man, I dunno if I'll ever see you again...now where is my dead wife?"
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Eddies Enticements ..... ( Spoilers )

Post by Otherworld on Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:27 pm

devil hunter wrote:
Otherworld wrote:He is basically saying here that he killed 2 "people" and a dog .....


I think the town made him crazier, before he went into it, he wounded someone and killed a dog, but like he does say he got scared and ran away.


This is a possibility as well. It just seems like the intent was always there.

devil hunter wrote:
Otherworld wrote: James says as much as he even knows that it would not be right to just leave a little girl alone in such a place.....


Which is funny because James leaves people, like in the first encounter with Eddie, it's like: "Yeah, this place is dangerous..be careful man, I dunno if I'll ever see you again...now where is my dead wife?"


^ :lol: Pretty much !

But Eddie is an grown man and would be capable of defending himself. Laura, on the other hand, would not be able to defend herself.
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Eddies Enticements ..... ( Spoilers )

Post by Borg on Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:40 pm

Otherworld wrote:
This is a possibility as well. It just seems like the intent was always there.


Sure, but the same thing is with Angela and James.

I don't understand why so many people demonize Eddie, like he was the worst one out of all of them. Sure, circumstances are much different between him and James, but are closer when it comes to Angela. They both wanted to escape from their tormentors.

However, when it comes to all of them, Eddie was the only one incapable of killing a human being, he wounded someone yes, but, in the knee, out of all places and he got scared. Angela and James actually killed a human being before they went to Silent Hill.

Hell, the first time we see him he's puking in the toilet.

I don't see why so many people think "oh yeah, he definitely had it in him, he's the craziest and most unstable one".

Otherworld wrote:
^ :lol: Pretty much !

But Eddie is an grown man and would be capable of defending himself. Laura, on the other hand, would not be able to defend herself.


Nah, we all know the truth, Eddie was right, James never cared about him in the first place. :D
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Eddies Enticements ..... ( Spoilers )

Post by Otherworld on Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:55 pm

devil hunter wrote:
Otherworld wrote:
This is a possibility as well. It just seems like the intent was always there.


Sure, but the same thing is with Angela and James.

I don't understand why so many people demonize Eddie, like he was the worst one out of all of them. Sure, circumstances are much different between him and James, but are closer when it comes to Angela. They both wanted to escape from their tormentors.

However, when it comes to all of them, Eddie was the only one incapable of killing a human being, he wounded someone yes, but, in the knee, out of all places and he got scared. Angela and James actually killed a human being before they went to Silent Hill.

Hell, the first time we see him he's puking in the toilet.

I don't see why so many people think "oh yeah, he definitely had it in him, he's the craziest and most unstable one".


I can understand this viewpoint but the game paints Eddies character that way.

The burden Angela carries seems to be much heavier when compared to Eddie. In no way am I suggesting that Eddie wouldn't harmed by the abuse he has endured. But Angela's plight seems much heavier and would tip the balance on that scale so to speak.

Plus Eddie would never be called to town if the town did not see what was truly in his heart.

He is not there by accident.
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Eddies Enticements ..... ( Spoilers )

Post by jam6i on Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:07 pm

I always scratched my head at how Eddie wound up in the town. And no, don't throw the "town called him" card at me because that doesn't answer the question.

James received a letter that told him to go there.
Angela claims she intentionally went there looking for her family (regardless of how true that was, it was still a reason).
Laura was looking for Mary.

So Eddie....heard about the town's great pizza? What specifically led him there? What exactly was his reasoning for entering town?
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Post by Otherworld on Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:10 pm

jam6i wrote:I always scratched my head at how Eddie wound up in the town. And no, don't throw the "town called him" card at me because that doesn't answer the question.

James received a letter that told him to go there.
Angela claims she intentionally went there looking for her family (regardless of how true that was, it was still a reason).
Laura was looking for Mary.

So Eddie....heard about the town's great pizza? What specifically led him there? What exactly was his reasoning for entering town?


Eddie drives Laura to town as per her request. But he ends up in the otherworld because he is called.
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Post by Borg on Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:31 pm

Otherworld wrote:I can understand this viewpoint but the game paints Eddies character that way.


This here is exactly the problem I have with it. The game doesn't paint the character in any way. The characters are morally ambiguous. That's what people praise about the game. The game shows us that some situations may not necessarily be evil.

So, why is Eddie the exception to the rule? Why is he the only one seen by the majority as an unredeemable monster? Why is that the one thing where fans are pretty one sided on?


Otherworld wrote:Plus Eddie would never be called to town if the town did not see what was truly in his heart.

He is not there by accident.


OK, I know this is brought up a lot when it comes to Eddie, but the thing is, same stuff can be applied to James and Angela. They weren't there by accident either.

Otherworld wrote:The burden Angela carries seems to be much heavier when compared to Eddie. In no way am I suggesting that Eddie wouldn't harmed by the abuse he has endured. But Angela's plight seems much heavier and would tip the balance on that scale so to speak.


So, did his bullies had to rape him a bunch of times and say stuff like "Squeal pig! Squeal!" (like something out of "Delivereance") so that his plight could've been more heavier, sympathetic etc.?

Bullying isn't such a small problem. What about all those school shootings? Are we supposed to assume those were all monsters who had it in them? Bullying can be that devastating.

People like to point out how Eddie acts etc., well, how is Angela any different? They both do similar things actually. They're kind of friendly at the beginning (Eddie slightly more than Angela since he's saner at that point). Then they get more antagonistic.

Angela is as unstablle as he is. She accuses him of all kinds of things, asking if he'll force her, beat her up etc. She throws all those accusations at him and he didn't do anything to provoke that kind of a reaction. She even comes close to attacking him a couple of times.

People also mention how Eddie kills people because they make fun of him etc.

How does Angela react when she's faced with her tormentor?

Image

Not so different don't you think?

In fact, at the beginning of the fight she acts probably the same way she acted before she went to kill her dad and then when James defeats Abstract Daddy she beats the hell out of it (probably the same thing she did when she decided to kill him).

They both can be pretty violent.

Not so different, don't you think?

Eddie went insane, he wasn't thinking clearly by the end, can you blame him? Look at the stuff James had to witness (Maria dying over and over again) or Angela (getting abused etc. again). Who knows what kind of stuff he witnessed. In fact, you know about the things he was in the least (apart from the meat locker). Is it any wonder he went insane?

Oh, one more thing, you do actually see a conversation between him and Laura where they discuss the possiblity of him turning himself in but he says they wouldn't believe him.

I think that shows he thought about it and that he's scared.

I'm not trying to make Eddie seem better than he actually is, my point is NONE of them are saints.

I simply don't get why Angela is OK to feel sorry for her and Eddie is automatically evil.

Hell, Walter did much worse things and people feel so sorry for him.

jam6i wrote:So Eddie....heard about the town's great pizza? What specifically led him there? What exactly was his reasoning for entering town?


He ran away when he shot that one dude and killed the dog. He got scared and ran.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Meltdown on Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:22 pm

devil hunter wrote:This here is exactly the problem I have with it. The game doesn't paint the character in any way. The characters are morally ambiguous. That's what people praise about the game. The game shows us that some situations may not necessarily be evil. So, why is Eddie the exception to the rule? Why is he the only one seen by the majority as an unredeemable monster? Why is that the one thing where fans are pretty one sided on?
I am sort of in agreement with you here. I don't really get why Eddie is always talked about as though he is so much more evil than James or even Angela. They've all done reprehensible acts, and I'd argue none of them are actually sane. I really don't see how Angela's burden is that much heavier than Eddie's. I don't think its productive to try to compare or contrast different types of abuse (sexual vs. bullying), but I don't think we should underestimate the damage that bullying can do. Just look at the amount of suicides, self harm, or even outward violence (e.g. school shootings and such) that result from bullying. I really don't think that every person who is the victim of bullying and acts out is just inherently evil, or "has it in them." Everybody has a limit. Angela had a limit, Eddie had a limit, and they both acted out violent after that limit was reached. Whether or not James or Eddie's victims were actually bullies is sort of besides the point. Eddie perceived them as bullies. Stephen King has always done a great job at describing the relationship between the bully and their victim in various works and interviews.

Frankly, I think part of the reason that fans tend to sympathize more with Angela is simply the fact that sexual and domestic abuse are better understood to be evil. I think, at least in America, bullying is often underplayed and underestimated in its ability to cause significant psychological harm to people. A lot of times there is this idea that because most victims of bullying don't react visibly negatively through violence, then we tend to view the ones who do as inherently evil. A good example of the difference between social perceptions of bullying vs. other forms of abuse is that the Republican nominee for President had a history of bullying in school according to his fellow classmates. While it was covered here and there, it never became a real issue during his campaign for President. Now imagine what a difference it would be if he had a history of sexual abuse, instead of physical and verbal abuse? I'm not saying they're equal, but I would argue that one is grossly underestimated in its ability to destroy a person.
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Otherworld

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Eddies Enticements ..... ( Spoilers )

Post by Otherworld on Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:44 pm

devil hunter wrote:
Otherworld wrote:I can understand this viewpoint but the game paints Eddies character that way.


This here is exactly the problem I have with it. The game doesn't paint the character in any way. The characters are morally ambiguous. That's what people praise about the game. The game shows us that some situations may not necessarily be evil.

So, why is Eddie the exception to the rule? Why is he the only one seen by the majority as an unredeemable monster? Why is that the one thing where fans are pretty one sided on?


Perhaps because we only see the his story through James POV. Things would probably be much different if we played as Eddie. But that still does not change the reason for his calling in the 1st place.


devil hunter wrote:
Otherworld wrote:Plus Eddie would never be called to town if the town did not see what was truly in his heart.

He is not there by accident.


OK, I know this is brought up a lot when it comes to Eddie, but the thing is, same stuff can be applied to James and Angela. They weren't there by accident either.


Yup, which just proves he is there because the town sees darkness in his heart.

devil hunter wrote:
Otherworld wrote:The burden Angela carries seems to be much heavier when compared to Eddie. In no way am I suggesting that Eddie wouldn't harmed by the abuse he has endured. But Angela's plight seems much heavier and would tip the balance on that scale so to speak.


So, did his bullies had to rape him a bunch of times and say stuff like "Squeal pig! Squeal!" (like something out of "Delivereance") so that his plight could've been more heavier, sympathetic etc.?

Bullying isn't such a small problem. What about all those school shootings? Are we supposed to assume those were all monsters who had it in them? Bullying can be that devastating.

People like to point out how Eddie acts etc., well, how is Angela any different? They both do similar things actually. They're kind of friendly at the beginning (Eddie slightly more than Angela since he's saner at that point). Then they get more antagonistic.

Angela is as unstablle as he is. She accuses him of all kinds of things, asking if he'll force her, beat her up etc. She throws all those accusations at him and he didn't do anything to provoke that kind of a reaction. She even comes close to attacking him a couple of times.


Again, I am not dismissing how devastating bullying can be to some. It definitely contributes to the way Eddie acts. But Eddies reactions are not typical. He chooses to "kill" even when he is not threatened.

Angela's reactions are typical of a women that has been sexually abused. But she never attacks James physically. Her accusations all mostly about her distrust for men in general.

devil hunter wrote:People also mention how Eddie kills people because they make fun of him etc.

How does Angela react when she's faced with her tormentor?

Image

Not so different don't you think?

In fact, at the beginning of the fight she acts probably the same way she acted before she went to kill her dad and then when James defeats Abstract Daddy she beats the hell out of it (probably the same thing she did when she decided to kill him).

They both can be pretty violent.

Not so different, don't you think?

Eddie went insane, he wasn't thinking clearly by the end, can you blame him? Look at the stuff James had to witness (Maria dying over and over again) or Angela (getting abused etc. again). Who knows what kind of stuff he witnessed. In fact, you know about the things he was in the least (apart from the meat locker). Is it any wonder he went insane?

Oh, one more thing, you do actually see a conversation between him and Laura where they discuss the possiblity of him turning himself in but he says they wouldn't believe him.

I think that shows he thought about it and that he's scared.

I'm not trying to make Eddie seem better than he actually is, my point is NONE of them are saints.

I simply don't get why Angela is OK to feel sorry for her and Eddie is automatically evil.

Hell, Walter did much worse things and people feel so sorry for him.


Agreed.

Walter and Angela are just painted in much more sympathetic light. When Walter is much worse than Eddie by a land slide.

But Angela becomes violent against her 1 specific tormentor. And justifiably so.

Eddie gives us this statement:

From now on, if anyone makes fun of me... I'll kill em. Just like that.


And then tries to kill James for no reason. A big difference.

Meltdown wrote:I am sort of in agreement with you here. I don't really get why Eddie is always talked about as though he is so much more evil than James or even Angela. They've all done reprehensible acts, and I'd argue none of them are actually sane. I really don't see how Angela's burden is that much heavier than Eddie's. I don't think its productive to try to compare or contrast different types of abuse (sexual vs. bullying), but I don't think we should underestimate the damage that bullying can do. Just look at the amount of suicides, self harm, or even outward violence (e.g. school shootings and such) that result from bullying. I really don't think that every person who is the victim of bullying and acts out is just inherently evil, or "has it in them." Everybody has a limit. Angela had a limit, Eddie had a limit, and they both acted out violent after that limit was reached. Whether or not James or Eddie's victims were actually bullies is sort of besides the point. Eddie perceived them as bullies. Stephen King has always done a great job at describing the relationship between the bully and their victim in various works and interviews.

Frankly, I think part of the reason that fans tend to sympathize more with Angela is simply the fact that sexual and domestic abuse are better understood to be evil. I think, at least in America, bullying is often underplayed and underestimated in its ability to cause significant psychological harm to people. A lot of times there is this idea that because most victims of bullying don't react visibly negatively through violence, then we tend to view the ones who do as inherently evil. A good example of the difference between social perceptions of bullying vs. other forms of abuse is that the Republican nominee for President had a history of bullying in school according to his fellow classmates. While it was covered here and there, it never became a real issue during his campaign for President. Now imagine what a difference it would be if he had a history of sexual abuse, instead of physical and verbal abuse? I'm not saying they're equal, but I would argue that one is grossly underestimated in its ability to destroy a person.


100% totally agree.

It is hard to compare.

In Angela's case a father is supposed to protect and give unconditional love. This is especially true with daughters. "Daddy's little girl"
Plus any real mother would never let that type of thing happen to their daughter. Angela's life has been cursed the moment she was conceived. She tries to run but she cannot and is brought back home.

In Eddies case he has been tortured just because of the way he looks. He may have had a very good life at home as his manifestations have nothing to do with family members. He seems to be relatively passive, but there is a side to him that is extremely violent. Is it due to the abuse he endures ? Maybe. But we cannot be sure.

The game just paints to two characters differently in my view.....
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Silenthill4life

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Eddies Enticements ..... ( Spoilers )

Post by Silenthill4life on Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:15 pm

Otherworld wrote:The way I look at it .... it is the reason why the pizza is there so to speak. James says as much as he even knows that it would not be right to just leave a little girl alone in such a place.....

James: This town is full of monsters! How can you sit there and eat pizza!'


I think it is a there is a running theme between the 2 characters that has to do with selfishness.


I don't think Eddie is selfish.
He has every right to be how he is. Laura clearly stated that "he would only slow her down".
It's not being selfish but neither is he being selfless.

He just seems rejected, which appears to be the story of his life given his incessant bullying.

James indeed was selfish. His motives and action of killing Mary can be partly defined as such, but I don't think Eddie can be considered selfish. Eddie just snapped. All those of years of abuse and torment took its toll and broke him, causing that action of shooting the dog and wounding the jock.

James too did snap, but he snapped after he killed Mary (which he partly did so under a selfish guise). Before that he was just deteriorating from his sense of helplessness, sexual frustration and the abuse he endured from her.

I agree in large with what Devil Hunter wrote. Eddie seems the least monstrous out of everyone. In fact he's probably the most relatable of all the characters, because everyone has been through bullying of some extent. We can more closely empathise with Eddie than we could with James or Angela (whom we would still have great sympathy for).

I think the reason why Eddie appears monstrous is because we only see it from James POV. Yes Eddie does claim at the end that he would kill anyone that looks at him funny from now on and proceeds to attack James
From now on, if anyone makes fun of me... I'll kill em. Just like that.


But we need to keep in mind that Eddie discerned James as a bully because James called Eddie crazy first:

James: Eddie, have you gone nuts'

*Eddie slowly turns around.*

Eddie: I knew it. You too. You're just like 'em, James.

James: Hey I didn't mean anything.

Eddie: Don't bother. I understand. You've been laughin' at me all along,
haven't you? Ever since we first met. I'll kill you, James.


Eddie has just formed a morally unconscionable resolution to his problem of bullying, after years of abuse. His perspective is grotesquely convoluted.
I feel like he isn't killing for the sake of killing but he thinks it's a permanent, quick-fix to his problems.

He isn't a monster, just lost.
 
 
 
 
 

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Eddies Enticements ..... ( Spoilers )

Post by Otherworld on Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:04 am

Laura is not an adult. Eddie is. In this instance he needs to act like one. Don't you think?

Eddie is a grown man. Any grown man would automatically know just like James does that Silent Hill is no place for a little girl.

A grown man would not be told by a little girl that he is not needed in the situation they are in. I think he would make it his responsibility to ensure that a little girl would not leave his sight in a place like Silent Hill.

Eddie just seems a little more preoccupied with his pizza then his responsibility as an adult in this situation. Telling James that basically Laura knows best.

Really? An eight year old knows better.......

This is quite evident as both Maria and James are worried about Laura's safety. To show that type of concern shows an understanding that in fact an eight year old does not know best.

What makes Eddie look more monsterous is the massive body count he has when we meet him in the meat locker. He has admitted to killing people because of the way people look at him. And he tries to kill James for absolutely no good reason at all.

Don't get me wrong I totally empathize with Eddie. But Eddie was called for a reason. And it seems like that reason has a lot to do with the fact that he has the intent of committing murder.

Silent Hill used a type of lure and Eddie took the bait so to speak. Bottom line is that Eddie chooses to commit murder and the town knew he would.....
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Eddies Enticements ..... ( Spoilers )

Post by Silenthill4life on Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:04 am

Otherworld wrote:Laura is not an adult. Eddie is. In this instance he needs to act like one. Don't you think?

Eddie is a grown man. Any grown man would automatically know just like James does that Silent Hill is no place for a little girl.

A grown man would not be told by a little girl that he is not needed in the situation they are in. I think he would make it his responsibility to ensure that a little girl would not leave his sight in a place like Silent Hill.

Eddie just seems a little more preoccupied with his pizza then his responsibility as an adult in this situation. Telling James that basically Laura knows best.

Really? An eight year old knows better.......

This is quite evident as both Maria and James are worried about Laura's safety. To show that type of concern shows an understanding that in fact an eight year old does not know best.


Eddie may be an adult physically but mentally maybe not because of his disjointed social development from bullying.

His attire is very childish (including him donning a baseball hat backwards with eccentric, mismatched clothing: large khaki pants and a polo shirt), A mature grown man would have dressed himself more sensibly.
His dialogue when speaking too seems to symbolise his childish nature:

Red pyramid thing? I don't know what yer talkin' about. Honest. But I did see some weird-lookin' monsters. They scared the hell outta me, so I ran in here...


His slur or accent when pronouncing 'yer' and 'lookin' is reminiscent of a child speaking.

I didn't do anything. I, I swear! He was like this when I got here...


In this instance he responds like a child found guilty of having done a bad deed.

In general the way he conveys himself is reflective of a child, perhaps symbolising his social exclusion growing up.

Even his interactions with Laura depict Laura as dominating and being in control. Laura is belittling Eddie who takes it, like a child being bullied in a playground. Even at the beginning Laura is shown kicking Eddie whilst he is viewing his map besides his van.

James however doesn't have such interactions with Laura. He at one point loses his temper and patience chastising Laura for "lying" to him about Mary.

There's some more info on this notion of Eddie acting like a child on the SH Wiki page:
Eddie, meanwhile, dresses very childishly, speaks in a childish tone and pattern, and has very immature ideas of morality and rationality. He is seen interacting with Laura in a way no one else is - as if he is her peer, because they are both children.

http://silenthill.wikia.com/wiki/User_b ... 8Part_2%29

In the end it doesn't mean he is selfish as you stated. It just means he isn't selfless as I posted before. There is nothing to suggest Eddie is a selfish person. He is just a broken individual who is breaking down even more in his SH journey.

Also Eddie did show maturity and responsibility by giving Laura a lift to SH rather than leave her stranded. If he was willing to stand up for her then the fact that he decided to abandon her when he was in the cafeteria could very well then be attributed to him feeling hurt and abused by Laura's comments (calling him a "gutless fatso" and saying that "he would only slow her down". Basically saying she didn't want him around).

otherworld wrote:What makes Eddie look more monsterous is the massive body count he has when we meet him in the meat locker. He has admitted to killing people because of the way people look at him. And he tries to kill James for absolutely no good reason at all.


As for your allegation of him being monstrous because of his large body count it comes down to perspective. I believe Eddie's murders are misguided, a consequence of a convoluted perspective wherein he believes that by killing his oppressors he can end his bullying: a problem that has haunted him incessantly. As I previously posted:
silenthill4life wrote:Eddie has just formed a morally unconscionable resolution to his problem of bullying, after years of abuse. His perspective is grotesquely convoluted.
I feel like he isn't killing for the sake of killing but he thinks it's a permanent, quick-fix to his problems.


It doesn't make his actions any less humane but it does make him seem less of a monster and more unfortunate/confused.

Also he didn't try to kill James for no good reason at all...at least not according to his convoluted perspective. He felt James was oppressing him, no different to anyone else:

James: Eddie, have you gone nuts'

*Eddie slowly turns around.*

Eddie: I knew it. You too. You're just like 'em, James.

James: Hey I didn't mean anything.

Eddie: Don't bother. I understand. You've been laughin' at me all along,
haven't you? Ever since we first met. I'll kill you, James.


otherworld wrote:Don't get me wrong I totally empathize with Eddie. But Eddie was called for a reason. And it seems like that reason has a lot to do with the fact that he has the intent of committing murder.

Silent Hill used a type of lure and Eddie took the bait so to speak. Bottom line is that Eddie chooses to commit murder and the town knew he would.....


It isn't as black and white as you make it out to seem. There are a lot of shades of grey with Eddie's story.
We don't know his journey exactly to a high degree of accuracy as we do with James' journey.

Yes Eddie chooses to commit murder but his perspective on doing so is questionable. Is his action of murder selfish as it was for James?

I don't think so. I believe it is a consequence of his own delusional, convoluted state of mind. Killing to him is a quick and easy way to relieve himself of bullying.
To him all the murders he commits is justified because he feels like he has killed his bullies. That doesn't make it right but it doesn't make him selfish either.

And as to whether it makes him seem monstrous it depends on what angle you look at it:
That:
1) he is killing and killing is wrong regardless of whatever reason, therefore he is monstrous
2) he is deluded and believes killing is an easy resolution to his personal problems.
 
 
 
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