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Angela's Assumptions ...... ( Spoilers )

Post by Otherworld on Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:50 pm

During James journey in Silent Hill he meets and interacts with Angela countless times. During these exchanges it seems like Angela always has some sort of knowledge about the journey James is about to embark on.

This seems evident when they first meet ......

Here is the scene.



*On his journey into town, James walks into graveyard where he sees a girl examining one of the graves and approaches her.

James: Excuse me, I...

*The girl steps back from grave and gasps in surprise*


When we first meet Angela, she seems to be a bit perplexed about what she is looking at. She's kneeling down in front of a tombstone and seems to be taken by what she is reading on the tombstone. We see her get up and shake her head... walk away ... and then kneel back down and read it again like she doesn't believe what she sees .... Like she's there for a specific reason, like it is a part of her journey.....

Girl: I, I'm sorry...I, I... I was just....

James: No, it's okay. I didn't mean to scare you. I'm kind of lost.

Girl: Lost?


It seems to me like Angela says the word "Lost?" like a question, implying that she has some inkling that if you are here ( the otherworld that is ..... ) ..... She knows James is here for a reason ....

James: Yeah, I'm looking for Silent Hill. Is this the right way?

*James raises his left arm and points*

Girl: Um yeah.... It's hard to see with this fog, but there's only the one road. You can't miss it.

James: Thanks.

Girl: But...

James: Yes...?

Girl: I think you'd better stay away. This uh... this town... there's something... 'wrong' with it. It's kind of hard to explain, but...

James: Is it dangerous?

Girl: Maybe... And it's not just the fog either...It's....


When Angela tries to warn James about the impending and imminent danger that he will find down the only road towards town, she seems very skittish. Looking over both shoulders. Like she knows and has already had several encounters with her own dangerous manifestations, and they may strike without warning. Especially when trying to warn another "person that is supposed to be there" about that same danger......

James: Okay I got it. I'll be careful.

Girl: I'm not lying !

James: No, I believe you. It's just...I guess I really don't care if it's dangerous or not. I'm going to town either way.

Girl: But why?

James: I'm looking for... someone.

Girl: Who, who, who is it?

James: Someone... very important to me. I'd do anything if I could be with her again.

Girl: Me too. I'm looking for my mama... I mean my mother. It's been so long since I've seen her. I thought my father and brother were here, but I can't find them either... I'm sorry... It's not your problem.


Notice that in this part of the cut scene Angela touches one of the tombstones when speaking about her father ...

James: No, I... I hope you find them.

Girl: Yeah, you too.


Funny how both are looking for loved ones and meet in all places but a cemetery .... :dead:



James then meets Angela in the apartments, she seems to be completely exhausted.

Here is the scene.



Girl: Oh... it's you....


Angela is not only exhausted but we see a change in her character as we see that she has gone from skittish and worried, to depressed and not at all fazed by the sudden entry of James.

James: Yeah... I'm James

Girl: Angela...

James: Angela... okay. I don't know what you're planning... But there's always another way.

Angela: Really? But... You're the same as me. It's easier just to run. Besides, it's what we deserve.


It is quite obvious here that Angela knows that James would not be in the otherworld unless he carries that same type of burden she does. She knows he may deserve to die for his deeds as well .....

James: No... I'm not like you.

Angela: *sarcasm*Are you afraid'*/sarcasm* I, I'm sorry.


Angela may be mocking James here because she is beginning to accept that she may deserve to die for what she has done, and because James denies it, while still being obviously guilty, she seems to question if he is actually able to atone for his sins in a juvenile manner ..... After all she is only 19 ...

The rest of the conversation seems to get Angela stirring again. Ultimately setting here back on the path.

Funny thing ... James shows Angela a picture of Mary, and we find a picture of Angela's family torn on the floor. Like James still holds onto hope, and Angela knows there is none left for her ......


After the Abstract Daddy boss fight ...

Seen here.



This is the only time we see Angela aggressively attack anything, kicking the monster and then smashing a TV over it.

James: Angela! Relax!

Angela: Don't order me around!

James: I'm not trying to order you.

Angela: So what do you want then? Oh I see, you're trying to be nice to me, right? I know what you're up to. It's always the same. You're only after one thing!

James: No, that's not true at all.


We know Angela has little to no trust for men, and rightfully so. And we know she has some sort of idea as to why James is in the otherworld too. It seems like her abuse has her making accusations about the sincerity of James' after he rescues her from Abstract Daddy. But is seems her mistrust could be well placed ......

Angela: You don't have to lie. Go ahead and say it. Or you could just force me. Beat me up like he always did.

*Angela begins to kneel on the ground.*

Angela: You only care about yourself anyway.

*Angela is crying and begins having dry heaves.*

Angela: You disgusting pig !

James: Angela...

*James puts his hand on Angela's shoulder.*

Angela: Don't touch me!! You make me sick!

*Angela stands up and gains her composure once again.*

Angela: You said your wife Mary was dead, right?!?!

James: Yes, she was ill...

Angela: Liar! I know about you.... You didn't want her around anymore. You probably found someone else.


Angela distrust for men and James seems to shine a light on the fact that James is not the knight in shining armour he seems to be in that moment. She has basically described why he is in the otherworld and that he may have met someone else ( Maria ). I know her perception of James is skewed because of her plight, but the funny thing is .... She could in fact be bang on here ..... Couldn't she ?

James: That's ridiculous... I never...


We know James could very well end up with Maria at the end of his journey so there is nothing ridiculous about Angela's accusations ......


In their last scene together, we meet Angela in her otherworld. As James enters and makes his way to her up the stairs, Angela seems deep in thought ..... Odd as the entire room in engulfed in flames.



Angela: Mama! Mama, I was looking for you.

*Angela walks towards James, while James backs away from her.*

Angela: Now you're the only one left. Maybe then.... Maybe then I can rest.

*James continues to back away from Angela.*

Angela: Mama, why are you running away?

*Angela puts her hands on James' face, then on his shoulders, and then back
on his face. She examines his face closely and then backs away.*

Angela: You're not Mama. It's you... I, I'm sorry...


The way this scene begins, it seems as like Angela does in fact see James as her "Mama". As we know it is possible for 2 people to see something completely different in the otherworld in the same place at the same time. It could be very possible that James "represents" a person that should have been there to take care of a loved one ( Mary ) during the most vulnerable time of their lives ....... Just like Angela's mother.....

It just seems like the town is trying to tell Angela that ........ she never had a real " Mama"

James: Angela, no....

Angela: Thank you for saving me... But I wish you hadn't. Even Mama said it... I deserved what happened...

James: No Angela, that's wrong!

Angela: No. Don't pity me. I'm not worth it....


Again, Angela starts down the road she was on earlier in the apartments, thinking she deserves to die for what she has done.

*The tone of Angela's voice suddenly changes.*

Angela: Or maybe you think you can save me? Will you love me? Take care of me? Heal all my pain?

*James doesn't respond.*

Angela: That's what I thought.


After this series of questions, it seems evident that Angela knows James was unable to care for someone that needed his help the most. Both James and Angela's "Mama" have failed to to ensure that the people that were the most vulnerable and needed to be taken care of were abandoned by the very people that should have been there to love them unconditionally.

Angela:James. Give me back that knife.

*Angela reaches her hand out towards James.*

James: No... I, I won't.

Angela: Saving it for yourself?

*Angela begins to walk up the fiery staircase.*

James: Me? No... I'd never kill myself.... It's hot as hell in here.

Angela: You see it too? For me, it's always like this.


In the end, it seems like Angela can see James has been broken down by his journey. Because of this, they can both see the exact same thing, just like they may both end their own lives ..........
Last edited by Otherworld on Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:01 am.
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Meltdown

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Angela's Assumptions ...... ( Spoilers )

Post by Meltdown on Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:31 pm

Good read. Interactions with Angela were always uncomfortable and somewhat confusing for me, in part because she does often talk as though she is more aware of Silent Hill than James is. She always comes across as though she knows more about what the town does to people, and specifically what James is in for. That's not to say she knows everything in those earlier scenes, she clearly doesn't, but James is essentially clueless throughout most of the story. Less clear to me is why she would have any reason to think that James has done wrong, although I suppose that her distrust of men might be enough. But that doesn't really explain why she would know what James is in for in Silent Hill, just that she thinks he's probably untrustworthy or even evil.
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Silenthill4life

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Angela's Assumptions ...... ( Spoilers )

Post by Silenthill4life on Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:26 pm

This was a very good analysis of Angela.

I always thought that Angela was further into her SH journey than James when they both met. Hence why she seems more cognisant than James about their plight.

I also (kind of crudely) just assumed that she was a lot smarter than James hence why it didn't take much for her to grasp the symbolism behind what was transpiring whereas for James it took a lot longer for him to process and come to terms with what was happening.
But I suppose this could also be because the weight of their actions affected them both differently. As harsh as this sounds James had less of a reason to hate/kill Mary than Angela did of her father and brother. Perhaps this was why it became more obvious to Angela what she had done than it was for James

Her extensive foreknowledge of James could also be perhaps because she discovers her own mementos or articles pertaining to James' character which the otherworld manifested, whilst in her own journey. Kinda like how James comes to learn about Angela and Eddie or Murphy does of John P.Sater in downpour.

In fact mentioning Sater is funny because Sater could be considered similar to Angela as he to seems to be cognisant of Murphy's plight except not of the same level as Angela is of James. This would seem particularly so when he retorts Murphy by saying
"And how 'bout you, Murphy? Someone know all your dirty little secrets?"
.
Also when he likens Murphy to himself by saying
"Listen to us talk, as if anybody out there gives a damn... when we're the ones to decide if we can live with what we've done."
.
Even when he teases Murphy saying
"Nothin' easy about bein' a coward, Murphy. You outta know that. Enjoy your stay."
he seems reprising of Murphy's refusal to acknowledge what he did to Napier was bad.
Also when he says
"Be seeing ya around, Murphy."
he is hinting at Murphy's potential full circle ending. The same fate he has.

I agree with Meltdown too. Perhaps her distrust of men immediately prompted her to be accusatory towards James of having done ill and being a bad person.
Last edited by Silenthill4life on Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:04 am.
 
 
 
 
 

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Angela's Assumptions ...... ( Spoilers )

Post by Borg on Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:51 am

Well, Eddie seems to be aware of James' journey as well.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Angela's Assumptions ...... ( Spoilers )

Post by jam6i on Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:51 am

I always believed, since Angela wasn't as much in denial about her own actions, she entered the town with far more mental clarity than James. She seems crazy from James's perspective, but only because he considers himself the normal one. I'm sure he looked even crazier from Angela's perspective.

She may not have known specific facts about James, but she was aware enough to where her assumptions were more than just assumptions. James had a much harder journey of self discovery than Angela. I don't think she was in denial of anything, only that she was in so much pain she was beyond help and she knew it.

She and James were both damned before they ever entered town, but Angela knew it. James did not.

So sad.
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Angela's Assumptions ...... ( Spoilers )

Post by Otherworld on Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:34 pm

Meltdown wrote:Good read. Interactions with Angela were always uncomfortable and somewhat confusing for me, in part because she does often talk as though she is more aware of Silent Hill than James is. She always comes across as though she knows more about what the town does to people, and specifically what James is in for. That's not to say she knows everything in those earlier scenes, she clearly doesn't, but James is essentially clueless throughout most of the story
.

Thank you.

I actually look at this like Angela accepted that she had little to no hope in her situation much faster than James did. Because of this, and because she is much further into her journey she was able to realise that there, in fact, may be no hope left for her.

Meltdown wrote:Less clear to me is why she would have any reason to think that James has done wrong, although I suppose that her distrust of men might be enough. But that doesn't really explain why she would know what James is in for in Silent Hill, just that she thinks he's probably untrustworthy or even evil.


I think Angela kind of puts 2 and 2 together here. James is possibly the only other human she has met. He is looking for a loved one just like she is. And when they meet in the apartments she had just torn her families picture in 2 while James holds Mary's picture up as he is still pursuing her. She can see the similarities between her and James. She would be able to put enough of that together, and compare it to her own situation, to determine that James is in the otherworld for some sort of immoral reason. Just as she is.

I have touched on this as well in another thread I created called " You're the Same as Me" here.

Silenthill4life wrote:This was a very good analysis of Angela.

I always thought that Angela was further into her SH journey than James when they both met. Hence why she seems more cognisant than James about their plight.

I also (kind of crudely) just assumed that she was a lot smarter than James hence why it didn't take much for her to grasp the symbolism behind what was transpiring whereas for James it took a lot longer for him to process and come to terms with what was happening.
But I suppose this could also be because the weight of their actions affected them both differently. As harsh as this sounds James had less of a reason to hate/kill Mary than Angela did of her father and brother. Perhaps this was why it became more obvious to Angela what she had done than it was for James

Her extensive foreknowledge of James could also be perhaps because she discovers her own mementos or articles pertaining to James' character which the otherworld manifested, whilst in her own journey. Kinda like how James comes to learn about Angela and Eddie or Murphy does of John P.Sater in downpour.


Thank you.

In the case of both Angela and Eddie, compared to James, it just seems like in the end they both have accepted who they are faster than James did. This could be because James' actions ( the reason for his calling ) may in fact have a lot more "grey area" in it than Eddie or Angela's reasons for being called to Silent Hill.

It just seems like James is in the middle of the overall spectrum that makes up Angela, James, and Eddie's characters. The symbolism is there. Eddie (cold meat locker) and Angela (burning stair case). Two complete opposite ends of the spectrum so to speak.

Silenthill4life wrote:In fact mentioning Sater is funny because Sater could be considered similar to Angela as he to seems to be cognisant of Murphy's plight except not of the same level as Angela is of James. This would seem particularly so when he retorts Murphy by saying
"And how 'bout you, Murphy? Someone know all your dirty little secrets?"
.
Also when he likens Murphy to himself by saying
"Listen to us talk, as if anybody out there gives a damn... when we're the ones to decide if we can live with what we've done."
.
Even when he teases Murphy saying
"Nothin' easy about bein' a coward, Murphy. You outta know that. Enjoy your stay."
he seems reprising of Murphy's refusal to acknowledge what he did to Napier was bad.
Also when he says
"Be seeing ya around, Murphy."
he is hinting at Murphy's potential full circle ending. The same fate he has.


Oh Sater is not just hinting .... I mean, he jumps into The Devil's Pit right in front of Murphy.

Image

Sater puts things together very quickly when he remarks that Murphy is a "first time visitor". And lets Murphy know that there is really is no way out (especially if you keep lying to yourself like he is). Plus Sater and Murphy share a common theme as well. As both have directly effected the family units of the victims of their crimes, and both didn't really mean for it to happen.

Silenthill4life wrote:I agree with Meltdown too. Perhaps her distrust of men immediately prompted her to be accusatory towards James of having done ill and being a bad person.


This is part of it, but as I posted above, it is not that hard for Angela to put 2 and 2 together, especially since she's been in the otherworld longer.

devil hunter wrote:Well, Eddie seems to be aware of James' journey as well.


Yes he does, as it seems like he accepts the type of person he is long before James figures it out.

jam6i wrote:I always believed, since Angela wasn't as much in denial about her own actions, she entered the town with far more mental clarity than James. She seems crazy from James's perspective, but only because he considers himself the normal one. I'm sure he looked even crazier from Angela's perspective.


As we have both agreed in the past. Angela suffers from PTSD. This is evident in the apartment scene when giving James the knife. That fact that Angela has a much better idea of what is going on is evident as well. It just seems that after the acceptance of her situation, things seems a lot more clear to her. While James psyche it still "muddy" as he is still in the middle of his journey.

jam6i wrote:She may not have known specific facts about James, but she was aware enough to where her assumptions were more than just assumptions. James had a much harder journey of self discovery than Angela. I don't think she was in denial of anything, only that she was in so much pain she was beyond help and she knew it.

She and James were both damned before they ever entered town, but Angela knew it. James did not.

So sad.


She may have been in denial when she arrived, but I agree. The amount of pain she has endured does make it seem like there was no turning back for her. When James meets her in the cemetery, with her reactions to what she is looking at. She seems to have figured out the truth about herself right at the very beginning of James' journey. Which is always why she is a couple of steps ahead of him. And yes, her story, is a tragic one.
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Angela's Assumptions ...... ( Spoilers )

Post by Borg on Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:00 pm

There's no evidence they see different things, James and Angela, though.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Angela's Assumptions ...... ( Spoilers )

Post by Otherworld on Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:11 pm

devil hunter wrote:There's no evidence they see different things, James and Angela, though.


We both know that is a very debatable topic and we can always debate it further if you like.

As seen in another thread found here.
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Angela's Assumptions ...... ( Spoilers )

Post by Borg on Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:11 pm

Yeah I know, it's just that the game doesn't support it.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Angela's Assumptions ...... ( Spoilers )

Post by Otherworld on Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:19 pm

Well, you know, I believe that there is more than enough circumstantial evidence to support it.

But I digress, this thread is about Angela's assumptions .....
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Angela's Assumptions ...... ( Spoilers )

Post by Borg on Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:20 pm

There's no evidence though, but yeah, there's no point in discussing that.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Angela's Assumptions ...... ( Spoilers )

Post by Otherworld on Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:28 pm

BoLM quote:

In the otherworld of Silent Hill, the world is seen differently depending on the person.
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Angela's Assumptions ...... ( Spoilers )

Post by jam6i on Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:57 pm

Omg could we please not ruin another thread with mindless troll fishing for arguments? This topic was an interesting read, please don't ruin it with arguments that you've already beaten to death numerous times in other threads.

This was about Angela and James and their relationship. Don't ruin this one as well please. We all know your game here.

You're contributing nothing to this thread besides your clichéd one liners you use all the time to bait people into arguing with you.
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Angela's Assumptions ...... ( Spoilers )

Post by Borg on Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:07 pm

Otherworld wrote:BoLM quote:

In the otherworld of Silent Hill, the world is seen differently depending on the person.


Yes, that means for Angela it is fire and sexual stuff, it's not for Eddie like that, for him it's a meat locker.

jam6i wrote:You're contributing nothing to this thread


The irony is incredible.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Angela's Assumptions ...... ( Spoilers )

Post by jam6i on Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:20 pm

There is no irony. Please stop it.

Go read my immediate response to Otherworld. I had some things to say. I contributed. Whereas you, on the other hand, are busy trying to ruin another thread with pointless argument. Just stop it. Your first response in this thread was an attempt to ruin the thread with yet another "but what about" line, trying to undermine the entire op.

Your entire goal in your first response was to negate everything otherworld said.

"But Eddie.."

Eddie was not part of this discussion. You are bringing in stuff just to be a nuisance.

Otherworld, sorry mate. Your op was an interesting read.
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Angela's Assumptions ...... ( Spoilers )

Post by Borg on Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:31 pm

Umm..the point of this thread was how Angela knows stuff about James' journey and the game shows shes not the only one, why wouldn't Eddie be a part of this discussion?

If Angela was the only who did know then you'd have a point.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Angela's Assumptions ...... ( Spoilers )

Post by jam6i on Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:57 pm

Like, otherworld linked you to another thread. Go there if you want to mindlessly argue about Eddie and what he sees.

Otherworld was talking about Angela and James and their connections.

You were the one to bring up Eddie because of course you did. It's just another "but" that you throw around to go against something someone says.
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Angela's Assumptions ...... ( Spoilers )

Post by Silenthill4life on Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:31 am

Otherworld wrote:
Silenthill4life wrote:This was a very good analysis of Angela.

I always thought that Angela was further into her SH journey than James when they both met. Hence why she seems more cognisant than James about their plight.

I also (kind of crudely) just assumed that she was a lot smarter than James hence why it didn't take much for her to grasp the symbolism behind what was transpiring whereas for James it took a lot longer for him to process and come to terms with what was happening.
But I suppose this could also be because the weight of their actions affected them both differently. As harsh as this sounds James had less of a reason to hate/kill Mary than Angela did of her father and brother. Perhaps this was why it became more obvious to Angela what she had done than it was for James

Her extensive foreknowledge of James could also be perhaps because she discovers her own mementos or articles pertaining to James' character which the otherworld manifested, whilst in her own journey. Kinda like how James comes to learn about Angela and Eddie or Murphy does of John P.Sater in downpour.


Thank you.

In the case of both Angela and Eddie, compared to James, it just seems like in the end they both have accepted who they are faster than James did. This could be because James' actions ( the reason for his calling ) may in fact have a lot more "grey area" in it than Eddie or Angela's reasons for being called to Silent Hill.

It just seems like James is in the middle of the overall spectrum that makes up Angela, James, and Eddie's characters. The symbolism is there. Eddie (cold meat locker) and Angela (burning stair case). Two complete opposite ends of the spectrum so to speak.

.


I like your example regarding James being in the middle of the spectrum and Angela and Eddie at the extremities.
 
 
 
 
 

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Angela's Assumptions ...... ( Spoilers )

Post by Otherworld on Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:36 am

Silenthill4life wrote:I like your example regarding James being in the middle of the spectrum and Angela and Eddie at the extremities.


Thank you.


Getting this thread back on track.

It is interesting to me that James ends up gathering up information about Angela that sort of mirrors how Angela is able to come up with the assumptions she makes about him.

In the Labarynth, James finds a newspaper article that gives him more than enough knowledge to make his own assumptions about Angelas plight.

This is just before the Abstract Daddy boss battle. Yet what we find that it is Angela that let's James know that she has some knowledge about him.

Maybe the town is leaving some of the same sort of "bread crumbs" about James' plight for Angela to find as well.
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Angela's Assumptions ...... ( Spoilers )

Post by Borg on Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:17 am

jam6i wrote:Like, otherworld linked you to another thread. Go there if you want to mindlessly argue about Eddie and what he sees.

Otherworld was talking about Angela and James and their connections.

You were the one to bring up Eddie because of course you did. It's just another "but" that you throw around to go against something someone says.


Otherworld wrote: During these exchanges it seems like Angela always has some sort of knowledge about the journey James is about to embark on.


Which is what happens to Eddie as well, I just pointed out Angela isn't an isolated case.

It's not my problem your bait posts derailed the thread.
 
 
 
 
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