Silenthill4life

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Laura and SH reality

Post by Silenthill4life on Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:34 am

Where was Laura in SH2?
Was she in the normal world or the fog world?

In the hotel stage, she tells James that she doesn't see any monsters or find the place dangerous so is she in the normal world of SH when she is talking to James or in the fog world but without any monsters for her (as given her age, she would be too artless/innocent to have any major transgressions prompting her descent into the fog world)?

If the former is true how can she be communicating with James if she's in the normal world and James is in the fog world?

Or perhaps she was drawn into the fog world by the town for the purpose of meeting, aiding and even testing James?

What are your thoughts guys?
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Princess Kenny on Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:40 am

she's an innocent.
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Silenthill4life

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Post by Silenthill4life on Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:45 am

Princess Kenny wrote:she's an innocent.


Okay.... but where is she during the events of SH2 when interacting with James?

If she's an innocent technically shouldn't she be in the normal world, and hence unable to interact with James?
I feel like she's an exception and called by the town into her own version of the fog world (minus the monsters) to aid James.... or if she is in the normal world, why does it never show her interacting with the normal populace of the town.
(Because Silent Hill in the normal world is an active resort town, which we can infer from Henry's comments about the town in SH4)
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Otherworld on Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:49 am

Laura is in the otherworld. Her otherworld. This is apparent as she does whatever she wants whenever she wants. She has hospital keys. She draws graffiti all over walls and plays with very expensive pianos all without anyone stopping her. That is because in her otherworld nobody is there. This is how she is able to communicate with James and Eddie. She even hands James a letter from Mary addressed to her.

She has free range to do anything she wants. It just seems like an orphan like Laura probably only has loneliness in her heart so that is what is manifested.
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Silenthill4life

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Post by Silenthill4life on Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:52 am

Otherworld wrote:Laura is in the otherworld. Her otherworld. This is apparent as she does whatever she wants whenever she wants. She has hospital keys. She draws graffiti all over walls and plays with very expensive pianos all without anyone stopping her. That is because in her otherworld nobody is there. This is how she is able to communicate with James and Eddie. She even hands James a letter from Mary addressed to her.

She has free range to do anything she wants. It just seems like an orphan like Laura probably only has loneliness in her heart so that is what is manifested.


What you say makes perfect sense, but why would the town of silent hill call her when she has no major transgressions or flaws. Henry, from SH4, is very much a loner but he only ever visited the normal world of silent hill. He did not experience an otherworld that reflected his loneliness.... or perhaps is it because his loneliness doesn't afflict him as it does Laura?

I've always thought the town only calls upon people with major sins on them, such is the case for james, angela and eddie.

Also do you not agree that Laura could be an exception, in that the town called her specifically to reach out to James?(Rather than the town's force manifesting her loneliness into her own unique otherworld?)
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Borg on Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:24 am

Well she went there to look for Mary. I guess she was included by coincidence, I dunno, it's been a while since I played it.

SilentHill4life wrote:Henry, from SH4, is very much a loner but he only ever visited the normal world of silent hill. He did not experience an otherworld that reflected his loneliness.... or perhaps is it because his loneliness doesn't afflict him as it does Laura?


SH tried to come up with something, anything, but all it found was nothing, emptiness inside of a brick that was called Henry.

So it gave up, quite shocked that such a being with no personality could exist.

Wait...Henry is supposed to feel lonely? I never would've guessed.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Silenthill4life on Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:33 am

devil hunter wrote:Well she went there to look for Mary. I guess she was included by coincidence, I dunno, it's been a while since I played it.

SilentHill4life wrote:Henry, from SH4, is very much a loner but he only ever visited the normal world of silent hill. He did not experience an otherworld that reflected his loneliness.... or perhaps is it because his loneliness doesn't afflict him as it does Laura?


SH tried to come up with something, anything, but all it found was nothing, emptiness inside of a brick that was called Henry.

So it gave up, quite shocked that such a being with no personality could exist.

Wait...Henry is supposed to feel lonely? I never would've guessed.


Lol that's rude.
I wouldn't say he was completely devoid of emotion. There were some captivating, emotional scenes with Henry. For example when he is in the hospital otherworld examining Eileen's x-rays. And in the escape/mother ending when he leaves his apartment, he immediately ponders over Eileen. Also in the Eileen's death ending, he clearly expresses grief over her death.
Last edited by Silenthill4life on Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:02 am.
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Nachtwaechter on Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:38 am

Laura wasn't really called by the town. The letter she got from Mary says the following:

I'm far away now.
In a quiet, beautiful place.

Please forgive me for not saying
goodbye before I left.

She simply misinterpreted this as her friend being in Silent Hill since Mary told her all about the town during their stay at the hospital. Laura doesn't know that she's dead and went to look for her.

Furthermore, she's able to interact with the other characters because they're all in the same "dimension" (the Otherworld), but since Laura is innocent, she doesn't perceive it as threatening. The game makes it quite clear that even though all the characters are physically in the same place, they're still more or less on their own as everyone is experiencing it differently. For example, the Abstract Daddy looks like a monster to James, but Angela sees her father. Both can interact with it/attack it, but it's not the same thing to them.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Silenthill4life on Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:50 am

Nachtwaechter wrote:Laura wasn't really called by the town. The letter she got from Mary says the following:

I'm far away now.
In a quiet, beautiful place.

Please forgive me for not saying
goodbye before I left.

She simply misinterpreted this as her friend being in Silent Hill since Mary told her all about the town during their stay at the hospital. Laura doesn't know that she's dead and went to look for her.

Furthermore, she's able to interact with the other characters because they're all in the same "dimension" (the Otherworld), but since Laura is innocent, she doesn't perceive it as threatening. The game makes it quite clear that even though all the characters are physically in the same place, they're still more or less on their own as everyone is experiencing it differently. For example, the Abstract Daddy looks like a monster to James, but Angela sees her father. Both can interact with it/attack it, but it's not the same thing to them.


Thank you very much for this!

I agree with what you say about the otherworlds but what about when they are all in the fog world?

When James and Laura are both in the fog world and conversing (i.e. when Laura is sitting on the graffiti covered wall) is the fog world also different for Laura than it is for james?
That is in her version of the fog world, are there no monsters or does she see the monsters?

Because in downpour when the prisoners enter the fog world, it is the same for all of them/filled with the same monsters and not unique to their own sins. (i.e. sanchez gets killed by a screamer which Murphy then sees and kills).
Even in Sh1 it is implied Cybil encounters the same creatures that Harry does when they are both in the fog world.

It seems that the fog world is the same for all those who enter it.

Therefore when Laura is in the fog world with James shouldn't she see the monsters too?
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Nachtwaechter on Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:38 am

Silenthill4life wrote:Thank you very much for this!

I agree with what you say about the otherworlds but what about when they are all in the fog world?

When James and Laura are both in the fog world and conversing (i.e. when Laura is sitting on the graffiti covered wall) is the fog world also different for Laura than it is for james?
That is in her version of the fog world, are there no monsters or does she see the monsters?


You're welcome!
I'm pretty sure the Fog World works the same. If Laura was capable of seeing the monsters as well, she would most likely not be as calm and carefree as she appears in the game. She's a young child without any means to defend herself, and yet she still manages to wander around on her own without having anything happen to her or showing any signs of fear, so I think it's safe to say that she experiences Silent Hill as an empty town.

Silenthill4life wrote:Because in downpour when the prisoners enter the fog world, it is the same for all of them/filled with the same monsters and not unique to their own sins. (i.e. sanchez gets killed by a screamer which Murphy then sees and kills).
Even in Sh1 it is implied Cybil encounters the same creatures that Harry does when they are both in the fog world.


That's not necessarily true.
For example, we don't know what exactly Sanchez is experiencing since we're sharing Murphy's point of view. From his reactions ("Let go asshole, you don't understand!") we can tell that "his" monster is most likely also humanoid/feminine in appearance, but we can't be sure they're seeing the same thing.
I don't know how to explain this, but a part of the monsters' appearance always seems to be predetermined by Silent Hill itself. Many games feature bug-like or canine enemies as well as nurses, but each time they are adjusted to match a certain character's fears.
It could be that Sanchez sees a monster that resembled a beautfiul woman with a monstrous face (it's not like you can really tell from the 5 lines of dialogue he has, but judging by his inappropriate behavior towards Cunningham, I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be some kind of sexual predator), while the same creature looks like a haggard woman to Murphy. They would share the same "template" but still appear as different monsters to different people.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Silenthill4life on Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:52 am

Nachtwaechter wrote:
Silenthill4life wrote:Thank you very much for this!

I agree with what you say about the otherworlds but what about when they are all in the fog world?

When James and Laura are both in the fog world and conversing (i.e. when Laura is sitting on the graffiti covered wall) is the fog world also different for Laura than it is for james?
That is in her version of the fog world, are there no monsters or does she see the monsters?


You're welcome!
I'm pretty sure the Fog World works the same. If Laura was capable of seeing the monsters as well, she would most likely not be as calm and carefree as she appears in the game. She's a young child without any means to defend herself, and yet she still manages to wander around on her own without having anything happen to her or showing any signs of fear, so I think it's safe to say that she experiences Silent Hill as an empty town.

Silenthill4life wrote:Because in downpour when the prisoners enter the fog world, it is the same for all of them/filled with the same monsters and not unique to their own sins. (i.e. sanchez gets killed by a screamer which Murphy then sees and kills).
Even in Sh1 it is implied Cybil encounters the same creatures that Harry does when they are both in the fog world.


That's not necessarily true.
For example, we don't know what exactly Sanchez is experiencing since we're sharing Murphy's point of view. From his reactions ("Let go asshole, you don't understand!") we can tell that "his" monster is most likely also humanoid/feminine in appearance, but we can't be sure they're seeing the same thing.
I don't know how to explain this, but a part of the monsters' appearance always seems to be predetermined by Silent Hill itself. Many games feature bug-like or canine enemies as well as nurses, but each time they are adjusted to match a certain character's fears.
It could be that Sanchez sees a monster that resembled a beautfiul woman with a monstrous face (it's not like you can really tell from the 5 lines of dialogue he has, but judging by his inappropriate behavior towards Cunningham, I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be some kind of sexual predator), while the same creature looks like a haggard woman to Murphy. They would share the same "template" but still appear as different monsters to different people.


Once again, many thanks!
And I'm guessing therefore if Laura was in the same room with Sanchez and Murphy she wouldn't have seen any monsters?

If you don't mind answering this question, how do you think Laura would witness Sanchez's death in the fog world?
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Nachtwaechter on Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:23 am

Silenthill4life wrote:Once again, many thanks!
And I'm guessing therefore if Laura was in the same room with Sanchez and Murphy she wouldn't have seen any monsters?

If you don't mind answering this question, how do you think Laura would witness Sanchez's death in the fog world?


That's an interesting question.

I think with Laura it's not just a matter of not seeing the monsters, they don't even seem to exist for her. Well, at least I don't remember any cutscenes where James was surrounded by monsters while Laura simply didn't see them. Whenever he is talking to her, they seem to be safe.

Just take a look at what happens in this cutscene starting from 2:40


There is nothing supernatural going on inside this room until the literal moment Laura locks James in and separates them spacially. It almost seems as if monsters cannot exist when she is around, so I'm not quite sure if Sanchez would have been attacked if she was around.

Oh, and the cutscene is also quite interesting if you consider what he have been talking about before. When James expresses surprise about Laura not being injured around 1:37-ish, Laura replies with "Why should I?", implying that the town really is harmless to her.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Silenthill4life on Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:40 am

Nachtwaechter wrote:It almost seems as if monsters cannot exist when she is around, so I'm not quite sure if Sanchez would have been attacked if she was around.


Cheers, I didn't even think about that
 
 
 
 
 

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Post by Otherworld on Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:01 am

Silenthill4life wrote:
Otherworld wrote:Laura is in the otherworld. Her otherworld. This is apparent as she does whatever she wants whenever she wants. She has hospital keys. She draws graffiti all over walls and plays with very expensive pianos all without anyone stopping her. That is because in her otherworld nobody is there. This is how she is able to communicate with James and Eddie. She even hands James a letter from Mary addressed to her.

She has free range to do anything she wants. It just seems like an orphan like Laura probably only has loneliness in her heart so that is what is manifested.


What you say makes perfect sense, but why would the town of silent hill call her when she has no major transgressions or flaws. Henry, from SH4, is very much a loner but he only ever visited the normal world of silent hill. He did not experience an otherworld that reflected his loneliness.... or perhaps is it because his loneliness doesn't afflict him as it does Laura?

I've always thought the town only calls upon people with major sins on them, such is the case for james, angela and eddie.

Also do you not agree that Laura could be an exception, in that the town called her specifically to reach out to James?(Rather than the town's force manifesting her loneliness into her own unique otherworld?)


BoLM quote:

Guiltless characters who visit Silent Hill by chance

In the town of Silent Hill, those who shoulder the weight of their crimes and their own pasts gather. However, like Douglas, characters who happen to become involved for some reason or other have also come to appear. These characters, who hold no darkness in their hearts, come to fulfill the role of supporting the protagonist.

Cybil was supposed to assist Harry in his search for his daughter. In the end, she was parasitized by a creature.

Having gotten to know Mary in the hospital, Laura visits the place which held memories for Mary in the hopes of seeing her again.

The story of the third game begins with the occasion on which Douglas finds Heather. Although he was originally searching for her at Claudia's request, Douglas comes to assist Heather after Harry's death. In the end however, it is beyond his power to help her.


Like all of the characters in Silent Hill 2, ( now this is just my opinion ) I believe that all are called by design. Since we play as James we have no idea how each character truly relate the others. We only know that the characters have the same sort of running themes as James during his journey because we play the game in his point of view .....
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Post by Rob of the Fog on Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:51 am

Some people think that, with Laura being too young and therefore too pure to have adequate "darkness in [her] heart" to generate the kind of personal hell-scape that the likes of James or Angela generate for themselves with the power of the town, she sees the reality of ~1994 Silent Hill. A Silent Hill which is supposedly a sleepy little tourist town that has seen better days but is still notably devoid of fleshy nightmare monsters.

I am inclined to think this is wrong.

Throughout the game, we see that, as James gets physically closer to other characters traversing the town, their nightmare worlds begin to overlap and we get insights into what their Otherworlds look like. Eddie appears to have constructed a frozen world of hanging butchered meat (reflecting his self-image and alienation) and Angela is lost in a world of fire and gyrating pistons (manifesting the trauma she has suffered because of the physical abuse of her father and brother(?)).

I don’t think these are the only people’s Otherworlds we get a brief insight into. I think the game drops hints at what Laura’s Otherworld might look like. And, where James’ Eddie’s and Angela’s Otherworlds are worlds of horror and misery, I think Laura’s Otherworld is a place of tranquility and childish playfulness.
Whenever James meets Laura, we get little flashes of reality that seems wholly out of place in James’ vision of Silent Hill and possibly the “normal” Silent Hill as well.

When James meets Laura on the streets outside the apartments she is sitting on a wall which has a happy looking mural of cats and other pleasant images painted on it. It’s possible that this was drawn by children in the ‘normal’ town on some other occassion or perhaps Laura drew it herself, but something in Laura’s response to James’ question, “What’s a little girl doing alone here anyway?”, strikes me as odd. She responds, “Are you blind or something?!”. This seems like a somewhat extreme response to that sort of question even if Laura does see an ordinary town around her in Silent Hill. Most children are taught that they shouldn’t be out alone in public places without a guardian, so she should understand James asking something like that. However, if, as I suspect, Laura sees her own Otherworld, a dreamscape of kitty paintings and teddy bears, then her indignation at James’ question makes perfect sense! What kind of little girl wouldn’t want to run around her own personal Disneyland, with or without company?! James must be blind!

Then when James finds Laura in the hospital, she is surrounded by a surprisingly high number of teddy bears. She’s got like 4 or 5 big cuddly toys with her. Either she stole them from a number of kids’ rooms in a working, active hospital or ...brought them with her to a derelict and empty (though not monster-infested) hospital. Either explanation seems unlikely, either the active hospital staff are grossly incompetent (what’s a little girl doing running around a working hospital unattended anyway?!) or she somehow stumbled across and managed to carry with her a vast number of teddy bears between the bowling alley and the hospital.

The final example is James’ encountering Laura in the hotel restaurant. Here she is seen playing the piano and drawing kitty pictures on the window with her hands. As in the hospital, the hotel of the ‘real’ Silent Hill is either open and occupied by staff and (probably) guests or is closed down and looks similar to what James sees when he begins to ‘wake up’ from his Otherworld nightmare. And again, either Laura, a little girl is being allowed to run around an open hotel, playing on a piano and dirtying windows without being challenged by staff or is playing a wooden musical instrument in a derelict hotel that is most likely horrendously out of tune and worn down with wood rot. Or, she sees her own Otherworld where she is free to play the piano as she likes and replicate depictions of cats on windows which she has been seeing all throughout the town.

Because Laura is an innocent and lonely little girl, I think the power of the town allows her to construct an Otherworld that is comforting and welcoming to her.
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Post by Xuchilbara on Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:50 am

Rob of the Fog wrote:
The final example is James’ encountering Laura in the hotel restaurant. Here she is seen playing the piano and drawing kitty pictures on the window with her hands. As in the hospital, the hotel of the ‘real’ Silent Hill is either open and occupied by staff and (probably) guests or is closed down and looks similar to what James sees when he begins to ‘wake up’ from his Otherworld nightmare. And again, either Laura, a little girl is being allowed to run around an open hotel, playing on a piano and dirtying windows without being challenged by staff or is playing a wooden musical instrument in a derelict hotel that is most likely horrendously out of tune and worn down with wood rot. Or, she sees her own Otherworld where she is free to play the piano as she likes and replicate depictions of cats on windows which she has been seeing all throughout the town.

Because Laura is an innocent and lonely little girl, I think the power of the town allows her to construct an Otherworld that is comforting and welcoming to her.



The hotel burned down. There is no staff. To her it's an abandoned building. That's spelled out for you when James's delusions crumble, with the heater, a note from the staff in LM about the heater, and the Burning man painting.
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Post by CrazyCatLady on Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:55 am

I agree with everything you stated. To Laura the hotel is abandoned, but just because the hotel previously burned down doesn't mean it wasn't rebuilt in the Real World. That hotel was one of their busiest in the town. I don't see why they wouldn't have. The hotel looks the way it does to James because of his perceptions of it based on what he's found (the note about the burning and heater). But all the places look different than they do in the Real World. I doubt it still actually looks like that.
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Post by Xuchilbara on Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:59 am

Nutmeg wrote:I agree with everything you stated. To Laura the hotel is abandoned, but just because the hotel previously burned down doesn't mean it wasn't rebuilt in the Real World. That hotel was one of their busiest in the town. I don't see why they wouldn't have. The hotel looks the way it does to James because of his perceptions of it based on what he's found (the note about the burning and heater). But all the places look different than they do in the Real World. I doubt it still actually looks like that.


There's no evidence it was rebuilt. So, why should we assume it's been rebuilt? Despite being a tourist town, there has been a lot of mysterious disappearance in the timeline of SH so I doubt it's as popular as it used to be.
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Post by Rob of the Fog on Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:05 pm

Purramid_Head wrote:The hotel burned down. There is no staff. To her it's an abandoned building. That's spelled out for you when James's delusions crumble, with the heater, a note from the staff in LM about the heater, and the Burning man painting.


Ahh. I didn't remember that note. It makes sense that it'd look similar to her as it does to James after he 'wakes up'. I wasn't sure whether to commit to the hotel looking one way or the other, because the drastic change in the hotel's appearance could have been another shift in James' personal experience without him necessarily getting a clear picture of the 'real' world. But, factoring in that note, it seems highly likely that what we see after James' recollection is indeed what the hotel looks like in the real world. I don't think this negates my theory, however.

What Nutmeg has said also seems like a possibility, though.
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Post by Xuchilbara on Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:26 pm

Yeah, but the game makes it a point that the hotel is not there like it was 3 years ago and James is delusional, hence all the fire and how it looks burned after reviewing the tape.

Image

That's why I don't think it was rebuilt. If it were the town wouldn't make it a point that it burned down under mysterious circumstances to James. If it was rebuilt the town would have shown James slowly the new rebuilt version of it, even if it were a bit rusty, because it doesn't match his memories. I think the fire happened fairly recently.
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