Otherworld

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You're the same as me ................ (Spoilers)

Post by Otherworld on Mon May 12, 2014 3:12 pm

The characters in Silent Hill 2, to me, have always had a lot more significance to James then what would be perceived at 1st glance....... Let me explain.

The way that I see things, the power of the town called all the characters to the town at the same time by design. We can only look at this through James' POV ( obviously ) but the connections are there. It seems like every character shares a common theme with James. Especially when we are talking about the multiple endings. I will not be commenting on Laura as her connection is quite obvious.

1st Angela's connections/similarities to James ......
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I regard this ^ as a very important scene in establishing that connection/similarity/ and overall theme between James and Angela.

I find it quite intriguing that, at the same time, Angela and James are both looking into a mirror. Angela uses the knife blade as a mirror and James so happens to meet Angela in a room with a massive mirror covering an entire wall. Remember, the game opens with James staring at himself in the bathroom mirror. At the end of this scene James takes the knife from Angela suggesting that both may be thinking about ending their lives (consciously and/or subconsciously) because of their plight. In this scene Angela already has gained some knowledge about James.

When James suggests,
I don't know what you are planning, but there is always another way.
Angela's reply is,
Really ??? But you're the same as me. It's easier just to run, besides it's what we deserve.

James immediately replies, saying
No, I'm not like you.
Angela says in a mocking tone of voice,
Are you afraid ....?!?!

It is immediately apparent that Angela is very aware that James is carrying the same type of " burden of guilt" she is. As Angela was in town before James, we can suggest that she a lot further in her journey through Silent Hill than James is.
Image
^After James saves Angela from Abstract Daddy, Angela is not at all grateful, and suggests that the only reason James saves her is because he wants some sort of sexual encounter/favor from her, or something of that nature. She also becomes repulsed during that thought pattern when suggesting that James could just force himself on her like her father did. Referencing, that in some way, Angela is aware of James' sexual frustration and that is one the reasons he is in Silent Hill. After that Angela seems to aggressively question James, already knowing the answers.

Angela:
You said your wife Mary was dead, right ?

James:
Yes, she was ill...

Angela:
Liar! I know about you...You didn't want her around anymore. You probably found someone else.


Again, another shared theme, but this time Angela has gathered a lot more knowledge about James and obviously does not trust him because of it. Although both characters share a theme here, they seem to be at opposite end of that themes spectrum in Angela's eyes.

In their last scene together, it seems like this running theme between the 2 characters has come full circle.
Image
Angela thanks James for saving her, but this time it seems like Angela is very aware of James' failure to take care of a loved one as she mocks him once again.

Angela
Or maybe you think you can save me? Will you love me? Take care of me? Heal all my pain...?

James drops his head down in an admission of guilt via body language and doesn't respond.
Angela follows up by saying,
That's what I thought.

Then Angela looks to retrieve the knife James is holding for her and suggests that James is saving it for himself. Once James refuses to give it to her she climbs up the staircase to her own demise.

The relationship between these 2 characters seems to coincide with the In Water ending. As both share common themes, James seems destine to meet Angela to ultimately realize if he will be able to take his own life as Angela does right in front of him. Notice that James does nothing to save Angela this time, as it is understood that this is her fate. And just like the mirror and knife, James could in fact share that very same fate as well.

On to Eddie. The themes shared between Eddie and James seem a lot more simplistic to me. James watches Eddie become a killer each and every time James encounters him.

The 1st shared theme is denial.
Image
Right off the bat it seems that both characters ( consciously and/or subconsciously ) are in denial about what they have just done. It is apparent to me that Eddie had just killed ( or thinks he killed ) his 1st victim, the dead person in the kitchen. But emphatically denies it while throwing up. At the same time, James is in denial about the murder of Mary. Telling everyone she died 3 years ago because she was ill. The connection between the two characters is quite clear.

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The next encounter with any real substance as far as Eddie is concerned is in the prison. In the beginning of the scene, Eddie is literally just sitting in the dark with a corpse. Now Eddie says it was not his fault, shifting the blame on to his victim. This scene may echo one of the common lines that we hear James say during multiple endings in which James suggests that Mary wanted to die. Using this thought pattern, making an excuse for his actions. And because of this he can go on with being able to deny that he murdered Mary in cold blood. The same way Eddie leaves in this scene, saying he was just joking, and found the corpse like that.

Image
In the last few scenes with Eddie and James, Eddie has completely lost it. Justifying his murderous rampage with references of the verbal abuse he had endured, driving him over the deep end. The similarities between the 2 characters is abundantly clear again. Both have committed murder in part due to the heavy amount of abuse they have endured. Eddie's loss of sanity makes that abundantly clear. This coincides with that fact that James uses another line multiple times in multiple endings.

James
I hated, you. I wanted you out of the way.

For me, this connection rings most true when tying it to the Maria ending. During this ending, it is Mary that accuses James that the reason he killed her was because of hate.

Mary
Don't make excuses, James. I know I was a burden on you. You must have hated me. That's why you got rid of me.

James' reply
It's true... I may have had some of those feelings. It was a long three years... I was... tired.

Mary
And that's why you needed this 'Maria' person?



Image
Just before the final fight between Eddie and James they give us this exchange:

James
You think it's okay to kill people! You need help, Eddie!


Eddie
Don't get all holy on me, James. This town called you, too. You and me are the same. We're not like other people. Don't you know that!


Both characters share very common themes, and in one instance, the Maria ending, it seems like James is in fact the same as Eddie. Embracing what he has done, and continuing to live in his delusion, meeting Maria in the park. Choosing her. In this specific scenario, Eddie and James are very similar, as they have both embraced ( consciously and/or subconsciously ) that they are both cold blooded killers.

Ultimately all of the characters in the story share common themes. Some are a lot deeper than others. This is why I believe all have been called at the same time by design. IMO it is no coincidence that Laura meets Eddie and they both end up in Silent Hill.

You may or may not agree with my theory, regardless if you do or don't .... I'd like to hear why .......
Last edited by Otherworld on Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:57 am.
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You're the same as me ................ (Spoilers)

Post by what on Mon May 12, 2014 5:03 pm

I note that you didn't include Laura and Maria, and I note it because I enjoyed this. I have done similar analysis myself, and the fact that you note Eddie's powerful connections to the theme of the Maria ending echoes my belief that, if each supporting character (sans Mary) represents one of the four endings, it is Eddie who represents the Maria ending, rather than the more obvious choice of Maria herself. I include both Maria and Laura in this, in that I believe they represent endings just as much as Angela and Eddie. As such, I would like to see which conclusions you reach by examining their connections to certain endings.

I really enjoyed that, and many of your other contributions, so much that I'm nominating you for our special little expert forum rank.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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You're the same as me ................ (Spoilers)

Post by Wilsden Hills on Mon May 12, 2014 6:17 pm

First of all, Congrats Otherworld on your well-deserved SH Expert nomination! :D

Second of all, I agree with what that this is an excellent post, and fully answers my question a while back regarding the purposes of the other characters in the game. A question which I believe you answered at the time, but obviously not in as much detail as your analysis here. Nice one! Having only achieved the Leave ending (twice, once on a standard disc playthrough and once on the Director's Cut) I can't really offer any further opinion or insight towards your post, but still wanted to doff my cap in your direction anyway *doffs cap*.

The screenshots are looking crispy too, are they from HDC or a maxed-out PC version?
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You're the same as me ................ (Spoilers)

Post by Xuchilbara on Mon May 12, 2014 7:27 pm

The Angela comments about his wife are more of an illustration of her sexual abuse than her having any knowledge.
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You're the same as me ................ (Spoilers)

Post by Rodox_Head on Tue May 13, 2014 12:18 am

I always felt the "Will you love me..." line said by Angela in the staircase scene served more of a dual purpose, and that was to not only leave James questioning his ability as a loving husband to Mary, but to leave ourselves, the player, wondering the same thing. How willing would we be to take care of someone whose fate is practically laid out before our eyes? Note that when she delivers this quote, we see her from James's perspective, as if she's talking to us as well.

Remember that the game was based on the concept of euthanasia. In both final encounters with Eddie and Angela, James seems to make fleeting remarks that they could be saved, or that he wished for them to be saved. He tells Eddie that he "needs help", and he refuses to give back the knife to Angela. During his encounter with Eddie in the cafeteria, James tells him that he can't just kill people because of the way they looked at him. He's trying to reason with someone who is clearly going insane. Whenever James and Angela are together in a scene, he almost always tries to show fleeting support to someone gone totally FUBAR, and after the Abstract daddy boss fight he tells her to relax, to which she furiously replies...
Don't order me around!


This brings to mind the note left by the doctor in Brookhaven.
So why, I ask myself, why in the
name of healing him must we drag
him painfully into the world of our
own reality?

While this note likely pertains to the Maria ending of the game and James's delusions, but it could also apply to Angela as well in a way. As someone like James who has no idea of what she's been through, it's easy to just say something like "it'll be okay" and give them a pat on the back, but an entire life of abuse and fear has left her broken beyond repair. Both she and Eddie have firmly convinced themselves there's no other way, and we have no choice but to see them fall apart right in front of us.

This also seems to come right back to James as he had no choice but to watch Mary slowly deteriorate over the course of three years. Given the conversation he had with her doctor and him reading through several medical books to understand her disease, he clearly wanted to believe that there was something he could do, something he shows with everyone he meets. Oddly, Maria is the only one he seems to not show this behavior to right away, as if he feels guilted into doing things for her. Maybe guilt from his failure to be there for Mary? Possibly.

I'm starting to get lost in thought here, so I'll just stop now and leave it to you guys to think over.
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You're the same as me ................ (Spoilers)

Post by Otherworld on Tue May 13, 2014 1:13 pm

what wrote:I note that you didn't include Laura and Maria, and I note it because I enjoyed this. I have done similar analysis myself, and the fact that you note Eddie's powerful connections to the theme of the Maria ending echoes my belief that, if each supporting character (sans Mary) represents one of the four endings, it is Eddie who represents the Maria ending, rather than the more obvious choice of Maria herself. I include both Maria and Laura in this, in that I believe they represent endings just as much as Angela and Eddie. As such, I would like to see which conclusions you reach by examining their connections to certain endings.

I really enjoyed that, and many of your other contributions, so much that I'm nominating you for our special little expert forum rank.


First and foremost, I am humbled by this nomination as I have an abundance of respect for all those that post here. Thank you what. I am just happy I was able to find this community, and I'm able to share my thoughts while learning so much about my favorite video game franchise.

Here is my take on which endings Maria and Laura are connected to.

The funny thing is I believe both Maria and Laura are connected to multiple endings. Here is why.

1st Maria.

Maria's construct, IMO, is derived from multiple sources. 1st the towns power, but more importantly I believe her make up consists of both James desires and Mary's "footprint" left in the town during her stay. We know the towns power can reach far outside the town itself, making it easy to believe that Mary's thoughts and emotions were still being "collected" by the town.

This explains why Maria has such a connection to Laura illustrated by this statement.

Maria:
I never met her before. I just feel sorry for her. She's all alone... And for some reason... I feel like it's up to me to protect her.


Image

I believe Maria is connected to 3 different endings. The 1st ( no surprise ) the Maria ending. This is obvious so I will not elaborate on it.

But I also believe that she is connected to the Leave ending as well. This is because it is Maria ( Mary's thoughts and emotions ) that ensure James searches for Laura. But the statement above runs much deeper than what it seems on the surface. Especially the latter part of it. As they may mirror the thoughts and feelings of Mary herself. Not only about Laura, but of her own situation as far as her thoughts and feeling on being sick and alone waiting for James to come and comfort her/ protect her. These feelings, in a way, are projecting the type of selflessness that is ultimately displayed by James in the Leave ending. Using this thought pattern, we can see that Maria's example of selflessness is, in turn, an example for James, giving him a second chance to redeem himself from the selfish act he committed. I will touch on the third ending at the bottom of this post.

Now on to Laura,

The appearance of Laura may baffle some as to what the hell is this innocent little girl doing in a story heavily soaked in adult themes. When James 1st meets Laura, he is reaching through some bars that block a hallway and Laura steps on his hand, kicks the key that he was reaching for away and mocks him. She does this to a man that she hasn't even met before.

Image

This small scene is rather important .To me, Laura is another representation of Mary. But because Laura seems "defiant" towards James I have always connected her to 2 different endings as well.

Obviously Leave, so I will not touch on that. I believe she is also connected to the Maria ending. During the encounters between James and Laura, it is evident that Laura is a representation of the negative emotions and feelings Mary had for James when James would visit her. Laura confirms this during the scene.



Laura's continuous abuse of James is another opportunity for a second chance for James. Here's why. James is forced to act like the adult during their interactions. Using selfless understanding all the while not taking anything Laura does to him "to heart" so to speak. In the scene below, James seems to garner an understanding of how this works. Making sure he keeps his cool while Laura is still non co-operative.



This is just another example of how James should have acted towards Mary when she was abusing him. Removing himself from some of the heartless things that were uttered from Mary, becoming much more understanding to the fact that he may have been her only outlet for her anger towards this illness that was sucking the life out of her. Laura's connection to the Maria ending is the obvious abuse delivered towards James by her, and if James cannot "rise above" it he will look just as selfish as he did when he took Mary's life.

Image

Both Maria and Laura share common themes with James, all the while, in their own way become examples and/or catalysts for him if he chooses to redeem himself.


As far as Rebirth is concerned ..... To me, Maria most likely represents this ending. The most obvious common theme is the constant re-spawning of Maria after she is killed multiple times. But, in this ending, James slides deeper into his delusion than he would be if he chose Maria. As now he believes that he can bring Mary back to life.

Image

It seems like the fog becomes thicker, and James' voice has a catatonic like overtone. ( if there is such a thing ). This may represent the fact that James may in fact believe ( because of how deep he is in his delusion now ) that he will be able to resurrect Mary, and this will in fact be a much better result than what the town has originally offered him in regards to Maria already being present. The connection between Maria and this ending is that both are offered as a supposed better option than the latter and James sinks deeper and deeper into his own delusion.
Last edited by Otherworld on Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:13 am.
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You're the same as me ................ (Spoilers)

Post by Otherworld on Tue May 13, 2014 2:08 pm

I apologize for my double post, but that last one ^ was another long one .....

Wilsden Hill wrote:First of all, Congrats Otherworld on your well-deserved SH Expert nomination! :D

Second of all, I agree with what that this is an excellent post, and fully answers my question a while back regarding the purposes of the other characters in the game. A question which I believe you answered at the time, but obviously not in as much detail as your analysis here. Nice one! Having only achieved the Leave ending (twice, once on a standard disc playthrough and once on the Director's Cut) I can't really offer any further opinion or insight towards your post, but still wanted to doff my cap in your direction anyway *doffs cap*.

The screenshots are looking crispy too, are they from HDC or a maxed-out PC version?


Thankx Wilsden Hill, I appreciate the fact that I am able to share my thoughts here freely. Oh, BTW, the screenshots are just images via Google. I can't take credit for those.

Purramid_Head wrote:The Angela comments about his wife are more of an illustration of her sexual abuse than her having any knowledge.


IMO, Angela has already predetermined that James, like her father, is only looking for some type of sexual act/favor in exchange for offering a "helping hand". This determination can only be made because of the knowledge Angela has gathered about James. We do not know exactly how much information she has gathered, but she knows James has "discarded" his wife and that there could be some sort of replacement ( Maria ) for her. This is confirmed by Angela's statement after James saves her from Abstract Daddy.

Angela
Liar! I know about you.... You didn't want her around anymore. You probably found someone else.


HoneyandtheBear wrote:I always felt the "Will you love me..." line said by Angela in the staircase scene served more of a dual purpose, and that was to not only leave James questioning his ability as a loving husband to Mary, but to leave ourselves, the player, wondering the same thing. How willing would we be to take care of someone whose fate is practically laid out before our eyes? Note that when she delivers this quote, we see her from James's perspective, as if she's talking to us as well.

Remember that the game was based on the concept of euthanasia. In both final encounters with Eddie and Angela, James seems to make fleeting remarks that they could be saved, or that he wished for them to be saved. He tells Eddie that he "needs help", and he refuses to give back the knife to Angela. During his encounter with Eddie in the cafeteria, James tells him that he can't just kill people because of the way they looked at him. He's trying to reason with someone who is clearly going insane. Whenever James and Angela are together in a scene, he almost always tries to show fleeting support to someone gone totally FUBAR, and after the Abstract daddy boss fight he tells her to relax, to which she furiously replies...
Don't order me around!


This brings to mind the note left by the doctor in Brookhaven.
So why, I ask myself, why in the
name of healing him must we drag
him painfully into the world of our
own reality?

While this note likely pertains to the Maria ending of the game and James's delusions, but it could also apply to Angela as well in a way. As someone like James who has no idea of what she's been through, it's easy to just say something like "it'll be okay" and give them a pat on the back, but an entire life of abuse and fear has left her broken beyond repair. Both she and Eddie have firmly convinced themselves there's no other way, and we have no choice but to see them fall apart right in front of us.

This also seems to come right back to James as he had no choice but to watch Mary slowly deteriorate over the course of three years. Given the conversation he had with her doctor and him reading through several medical books to understand her disease, he clearly wanted to believe that there was something he could do, something he shows with everyone he meets. Oddly, Maria is the only one he seems to not show this behavior to right away, as if he feels guilted into doing things for her. Maybe guilt from his failure to be there for Mary? Possibly.

I'm starting to get lost in thought here, so I'll just stop now and leave it to you guys to think over.


The interactions between the characters are as much about them as they are about James himself. This is why IMO they are called at the same time by design. Angela's intricate knowledge of James back story allows her to question James yet again already knowing the answers. Angela already knows her fate is set and James is powerless to stop it. Allowing Angela to continue on in her "world" seems harmless. But allowing Eddie to continue in his seems dangerous. A big difference between the 2.
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You're the same as me ................ (Spoilers)

Post by Xuchilbara on Tue May 13, 2014 7:40 pm

The reason I say that is because Angela has been sexually abused, and is acting like it. I know from first hand experience and psychology. It has absolutely nothing with knowledge about James.
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You're the same as me ................ (Spoilers)

Post by Otherworld on Wed May 14, 2014 9:44 am

Purramid_Head wrote:The reason I say that is because Angela has been sexually abused, and is acting like it. I know from first hand experience and psychology. It has absolutely nothing with knowledge about James.


My apologies, your knowledge on the matter out weights mine, that's for sure. I am also sorry about any first hand knowledge you have as I hope you did not have to endure anything of the sort.

My thought process was in part incorrect as the knowledge she gains is not the only reason she makes that predetermination about James. Sorry. As far as Angela is concerned, the abuse she has endured, (as she already does not trust men in general) coupled with the knowledge she has gained ( what little she has ) leads her to this immediate conclusion about James.

That's what I meant.
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You're the same as me ................ (Spoilers)

Post by Xuchilbara on Wed May 14, 2014 9:55 am

Her obsession with sex [peoples' relationships towards that.] and men treating women badly, comes out on James. It certainly adds to James's story as well, because it adds the element of thought provocation. I just don't think it's indicative of her knowing what's going on until much later towards the end. I do, however, think Eddie is much more aware of him and James's situations than James is. I think you're spot on with that.

(It's not your fault, lol, there's no need to apologize.)
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You're the same as me ................ (Spoilers)

Post by Otherworld on Wed May 14, 2014 1:19 pm

Purramid_Head wrote:Her obsession with sex [peoples' relationships towards that.] and men treating women badly, comes out on James. It certainly adds to James's story as well, because it adds the element of thought provocation. I just don't think it's indicative of her knowing what's going on until much later towards the end. I do, however, think Eddie is much more aware of him and James's situations than James is. I think you're spot on with that.

(It's not your fault, lol, there's no need to apologize.)


I agree, although I do believe that some assumptions are being made by Angela about James, mostly due to her sexual abuse. But I also believe that in the scene Angela asks questions to which she already knows the answers because this let's the player know ( in part ) why Angela is ungrateful towards James and does not trust him at all even after he saved her.

IMO, her assumption about his character is greatly influenced by her plight and by what little knowledge she has gained about him.
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You're the same as me ................ (Spoilers)

Post by clips7 on Thu May 15, 2014 1:12 am

First of all Congrats Otherworld. You are a class act through and through and well deserved. I really have nothing to add here because i completely agree with your theories in regards in how these characters are related to James.
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You're the same as me ................ (Spoilers)

Post by Otherworld on Thu May 15, 2014 8:55 am

clips7 wrote:First of all Congrats Otherworld. You are a class act through and through and well deserved. I really have nothing to add here because i completely agree with your theories in regards in how these characters are related to James.


Much appreciated clips7. Your thoughts mirror my own towards you as far as class is concerned. I have always respected you and your posts. Thanks for taking the time to read through my theories.

Thankx again !
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You're the same as me ................ (Spoilers)

Post by Venithil on Tue May 27, 2014 5:15 pm

Greetings again everyone. Business keeps me from posting frequently, but I am around sometimes ^.^


While I may not always see eye-to-eye with Otherworld on endings, this is a very good analysis and I find most points more-or-less undisputable.

As Angela was in town before James, we can suggest that she a lot further in her journey through Silent Hill than James is.

I always thought of Angela as sort of lucky James was there and the final scene as her partially completing her journey.
First of all, her first scene is in a *cemetery*. It is not that weird as anyone can have dead friends and relatives, but Angela seems sure her mother is alive at this point, and I am 100% sure she wouldn't visit the grave of her father.
I once wanted to post a theory about it but got sidetracked. Regardless, there's a decent chance Angela came to Silent Hill to *kill the rest of her family, then commit suicide* and the town's giving her a chance/respite same way it did with James when he came to finish his own life. Angela may be paying respects or be not long after burying her own brother when James visits her, and during her final talk with James when she mistakes him for her mother she points out he is "the only one left".

There is also a certain mirroring in two of their "boss fights". Namely, there's an opponent they cannot stand up to alone. James has to escape from Pyramid Head in the hospital; and Maria takes the blows for him. Angela is completely powerless when faced with a manifestation of her father; James defeats him for her.

Finally, both of their trips end on a staircase affected by their own respective Otherworlds; James' stairs fall down when he reaches the end of his journey, as if they fell apart from being so old and desolated; Angela ascends a burning staircase and the fire blocks James' ascent after her, but it also blocks Angela's descent down this staircase.

For me, this connection rings most true when tying it to the Maria ending. During this ending, it is Mary that accuses James that the reason he killed her was because of hate.


One thing that can be said about the Maria ending is that it desenthysizes the player and/or James to death. Maria dies multiple times and James' kills Mary twice, but it is of little to no consequence to him at the end. Eddie's motivation for the frustration that leads to his murders is lack of acceptance, ridicule, and abuse. James suffers the latter two from Mary and it may be part of what drives him to killing her; while Maria definitely promises the first one, and receives it in turn from James' in the ending. Unlike James, Eddie however wasn't capable of finishing his path in any conceiveable fashion. If we see the town as a judging force, that may be because it sees enough potential in James to teach him another lesson through the "Maria" ending, or sees fit to reward his effort to stay alive and willingness to put his past behind him by letting him find the acceptance he wanted, even if it's from a manifestation. Furthermore, James is noted to have positive traits Eddie's more devoid of.





Finally, with all the symbolisms in Born from a Wish strengthening it in particular, Maria is the character most connected to the Rebirth ending.
 
 
 
 
 
 

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You're the same as me ................ (Spoilers)

Post by Otherworld on Wed May 28, 2014 9:48 am

Venithil wrote:Greetings again everyone. Business keeps me from posting frequently, but I am around sometimes ^.^


While I may not always see eye-to-eye with Otherworld on endings, this is a very good analysis and I find most points more-or-less undisputable.

As Angela was in town before James, we can suggest that she a lot further in her journey through Silent Hill than James is.

I always thought of Angela as sort of lucky James was there and the final scene as her partially completing her journey.
First of all, her first scene is in a *cemetery*. It is not that weird as anyone can have dead friends and relatives, but Angela seems sure her mother is alive at this point, and I am 100% sure she wouldn't visit the grave of her father.
I once wanted to post a theory about it but got sidetracked. Regardless, there's a decent chance Angela came to Silent Hill to *kill the rest of her family, then commit suicide* and the town's giving her a chance/respite same way it did with James when he came to finish his own life. Angela may be paying respects or be not long after burying her own brother when James visits her, and during her final talk with James when she mistakes him for her mother she points out he is "the only one left".

There is also a certain mirroring in two of their "boss fights". Namely, there's an opponent they cannot stand up to alone. James has to escape from Pyramid Head in the hospital; and Maria takes the blows for him. Angela is completely powerless when faced with a manifestation of her father; James defeats him for her.

Finally, both of their trips end on a staircase affected by their own respective Otherworlds; James' stairs fall down when he reaches the end of his journey, as if they fell apart from being so old and desolated; Angela ascends a burning staircase and the fire blocks James' ascent after her, but it also blocks Angela's descent down this staircase.

For me, this connection rings most true when tying it to the Maria ending. During this ending, it is Mary that accuses James that the reason he killed her was because of hate.


One thing that can be said about the Maria ending is that it desenthysizes the player and/or James to death. Maria dies multiple times and James' kills Mary twice, but it is of little to no consequence to him at the end. Eddie's motivation for the frustration that leads to his murders is lack of acceptance, ridicule, and abuse. James suffers the latter two from Mary and it may be part of what drives him to killing her; while Maria definitely promises the first one, and receives it in turn from James' in the ending. Unlike James, Eddie however wasn't capable of finishing his path in any conceiveable fashion. If we see the town as a judging force, that may be because it sees enough potential in James to teach him another lesson through the "Maria" ending, or sees fit to reward his effort to stay alive and willingness to put his past behind him by letting him find the acceptance he wanted, even if it's from a manifestation. Furthermore, James is noted to have positive traits Eddie's more devoid of.





Finally, with all the symbolisms in Born from a Wish strengthening it in particular, Maria is the character most connected to the Rebirth ending.


Hello Venithil, thank you for taking the time to read through my theories.

I am glad others are expressing their thoughts on the similarities between the characters as well.

When we meet Angela in the cemetery, as she is looking at the gravestones, it seems like she does a double take, like she does not believe what she sees. She tells James that she is looking for her entire family. She says she's looking for her "mama" and that she though her father and brother were in the cemetery too. It seems like the town has directed her to the cemetery while looking for her deceased relatives. Maybe the town is trying to tell her something about her mother too. The connection through Angela could be that when she sees James in her final scene, and she mistakes him for her mother, both ( James and Angela's mother ) are one in the same to her as both have failed to take care of a loved one.

I look forward to a post with your theories on Angela.

As far as James and Eddie go, IMO the town "dangled a carrot" in front of both characters and Eddie took the bait, but I have an idea that the town knew it would go that way for Eddie.
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MisterY

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Post by MisterY on Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:41 pm

Nice analysis. But what i dont understand, is the second death of maria.
You dindt see pyramid head doing it, she just lies there. on bed,
If i remember correctly she had some bruises on her head. but its unknow
how this happened. After the cutscene that u see maria behind the bars
James goal becomes is too go to that room, while on this mission
He witness certain situations, One is the confrontation with Pyramid Head in the
Labyrinth, And the other the fight with Abstract Daddy. So the point is, She dindt was killed
by Pyramid Head this time. what do you guys think of this? what could be happened?

Maria was killed exactly 4 times in the whole game
- The first death was by One Pyramid Head
- The second death was by unknown.
- The Third Death was by himself.
- The last death was by two Pyramid Heads.
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Otherworld

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Post by Otherworld on Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:38 pm

You may have the order of the deaths mixed up, but it is unclear who or what killed Maria in the Labyrinth.

My best guess would be PH, as he is punishing James and pushing him towards the truth at the same time.
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MisterY

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You're the same as me ................ (Spoilers)

Post by MisterY on Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:38 pm

Otherworld wrote:You may have the order of the deaths mixed up, but it is unclear who or what killed Maria in the Labyrinth.

My best guess would be PH, as he is punishing James and pushing him towards the truth at the same time.


Intresting, thinking about that Pyramid Head is everywhere, so he may only
shows up on the right time, when he's is needed. and this time he's misleading
James maybe(He sure is misleading me:P). the bruises on her head explains she was beat to death.
Most likely it will be Pyramid Head, only this time he dindt showed up. and the bruises
explains she wasnt stabbed to death, or even choked to death. maybe it was meant
to James thinkin it was maybe a accident. She felt, as the desease was a accident too.
I'm just speculatin here, nothing more;)

Oops i was making a mistake, i have just seen the cutscene, and shes lies in a pool of blood.
excuse me. So its most likely to think she was murdered instead thinkin of a accident
but it still dont explains the bruises on the right side of her face.
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You're the same as me ................ (Spoilers)

Post by Silent Wanderer on Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:18 am

I find it mostly revolves around what is good or evil, or better, that good and evil are human creations and, depending on the situation and the individual, you don't really know how things will turn out and how far you're willing to go. In that sense, I find it even more fitting that there are multiple endings.

Most characters are at different points of this spectrum.

Also, am I the only one who thinks that the game keeps implying that James had found another woman? Or, at least, that he had a stong urge to find something antithetical to what Mary had become? Not because he wasn't getting laid, but because he wanted out of his new routine.

And, (I don't remember; excuse me if I'm mistaken), Angela is looking for her mother and I've seen people say that (I'm paraphrasing a bit) she killed her entire family and kind of lost it and thought she [her mother] was alive and looking for her because after all, she wanted her there. Couldn't it be that her mother actually ran away and left her with her father? Thus, Angela snaps and kills everyone and then wonders why her mother left her behind and didn't take her along to live a calmer and more sane life?

Maybe the fog world for her is the wondering for her mother [and contemplating killing herself] and the fiery otherworld is her other personal hell; her pain. (She does say "For me, it's always like this" but I'm not sure she refers to the fire but moreso to the constant pain; although I find it interesting that the line is served at that point. I have a feeling she summons her own otherworld whenever she feels the pain is too much to bear and gets trapped there. Much like getting stuck into certain thoughts when you're depressed. Fire is dynamic and intensifies and dies down like feelings, too. Also, to me, it doesn't seem like she died when she went up the stairs; she most likely just didn't have anything more to say to James.)

Laura, on the other hand, is the only character that's pure and innocent. In other words, it's a manifestation of James' conscience. Or a manifestation of morality. Maybe even the town's impersonated "judge" and moral trigger. The town is using her to poke at his mind. It doesn't matter if she's real or not. And, if she is, I wouldn't expect her to see anything more than the normal version of the town. Certainly not anything disturbing.

Also, Maria - when her Mary essence breaks out - says they have to find Laura, she's all alone etc. I draw parallels to "She's all alone and helpless" > "I am/was all alone and helpless [and you weren't there]". "Where is your morality/humanity?" But "I don't want your pity". In the end: "Do you love me enough to be here, anyway?" "Anyway? What do you mean, anyway?" :P It's caring for Laura but also an accusation towards James.

Have a look here for my theory about Laura:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=437492&p=7674226#p7674226

I'm not saying these theories are flawless but they're thoughts I've made.
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firecrest

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You're the same as me ................ (Spoilers)

Post by firecrest on Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:07 pm

Silent Wanderer wrote:Couldn't it be that her mother actually ran away and left her with her father?

That's exactly what the official Silent Hill 2 novel says through Angela's words and is the reason that Angela couldn't forgive her mother.
 
 
 
 
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